So, I am looking at a potential build for a Gestalt game starting at level 5. What one of my ideas is is a Sorcerer 20 on one side and using the other side to make the Sorcerer better.
Currently the idea I am exploring is
Sorcerer 5 // Scaled Fist Monk 1 / Tempered Champion Paladin 4
In this case, we have a Sorcerer of indeterminate bloodline with Full BAB, Base Saves of +6/+3/+4 plus CHA to all, CHA to AC, and CHA to Hit/Damage with Starknives. All that on top of CHA based 9th level casting.
Basically, using the second half of a Gestalt, what is the best possible chassis you can build for a Sorcerer. I think this type of build has to be up there, but I would like to see some other options and/or fine tune this one.
Desna is chaotic/good can't have Paladins, and Way of the Shooting Star requires you to be a Desna worshipper. She doesn't get the Sune clause.
However, you can still get pretty much everything from Oracle, if you're a Samsaran. Oracle 3, you can pick up the Sidestep Secret for charisma to AC. You can be an oracle of Desna, to pick up Way of the Shooting Star. Take Oracle to level 4, and you get second-level divine spells. The Mystic Past Life Samsaran ability lets you put Bestow Grace on the Oracle spell list, which basically lets you cast the paladin's grace as a buff.
Alternately, if a minutes/level buff doesn't do it for you?
If your GM allows custom races, be a race that is actually undead. Not humanoid with some undead-like traits, like the dhampir. Undead don't have a constitution stat, and add charisma to fortitude saves that they're not immune to, as well as to their hit points, which I don't think you can get any other way. Still an Oracle of Desna, for the sidestep mystery, which also gives you charisma to Reflex. Then, take two levels of Mesmerist, which gives you Towering Ego, adding charisma to will saves as long as you're not suffering an emotion effect. Without the paladin's grace, you get charisma to each of your saves, through race and class, as well as HP and hit points. And you're simultaneously an arcane, divine, and psychic caster. Best Mesmerist spell picks are probably Burst of Adrenaline and Burst of Insight, which let you add 8 to any roll based on a physical or mental stat respectively as an immediate action, at the cost of being fatigued or dazed. It's a super useful way to use those otherwise not-great mesmerist spell slots, and the hypnotic gaze is useful to your Sorcerer spells that rely on will.
While you're at it, you may as well pick up Noble Scion, which replaces dexterity with charisma for initiative.
Sorry I didn't specify, my group houserules allow axis paladins a la 3.5, making a CG paladin (Paladin of Freedom) a possibility.
If you're going to be fighting with weapons you might consider the eldritch scrapper archetype. Martial flexibility replacing most of your bloodline powers isn't a bad call there. The psychic bloodline to let you wear armor would help too, or nanite if you don't like eldritch scrapper and want weird abilities to use in melee.
Alternately if the starknives are for emergencies only and you're looking more at blasting then you might look at bloodline mutations coupled with a bloodline like orc or shaitan. Orc for more damage or shaitan to convert spell damage to acid, which is seldom resisted.
If you want more detail, which of these sounds best to you?
Ah.
Well, the above options still apply.
Paladin doesn't necessarily get you a great deal past level 2. Level 4 really just gets you Way of the Shooting Star as a bonus feat. You could back off there to give yourself some more wiggle room.
Oracle, I forgot you get a revelation at level 1, so you only need one level in it at all. Taking Oracle vice Scaled Fist would let you retain the freedom to wear armor and use shields. As you're an arcane caster, this would probably be a haramaki and a mithral buckler, but they can be enchanted. Combine with Noble Scion and you're pretty much out of uses for dexterity and are free to dump it outright; a magic haramaki and buckler will likely exceed your dexterity modifier anyways. If you either take Oracle to level 3 or take Extra Revelation, you can also grab Lore Keeper revelation from the Lore mystery, which lets you use charisma for knowledge skills.
Oracle 1 again, if you take the Nature mystery, you are again using charisma in place of dexterity for AC, but now, you're also using charisma for your CMD, which would normally be a weakness.
Last on the Oracle 1 bandwagon is the Heavens mystery, Guiding Star revelation, you can key your wisdom-based skills off of charisma, and get a spiffy metamagic benefit that isn't locked to Oracle spells.
Mesmerist 1 actually gets you a lot. Those spell slots can be used for Burst of Adrenaline, which can be a +8 to any reflex or fortitude save at the cost of one round of fatigue. Burst of Insight leaves you dazed for a round, so it's a more out-of-combat thing, but still handy. Hypnotic Stare is an irresistible -2 Will. You get to pick a trick, like Compel Alacrity, which if you or an ally start a round in melee lets them move ten feet as a free action at the start of their turn, without counting against their movement, which is super great. Or Gift of Will, which can let your allies use your presumably awesome will save.
Take a level of Arcanist and you can take the Metamixing exploit, which does not state that it is limited to arcanist spells. It lets you spend from your spell pool to apply metamagic without increasing casting time.
A level of Witch with the Seducer archetype can let you take a hex keyed off of your charisma instead of intelligence. Slumber is a winner, here. It won't be great, but with an outrageous charisma, it can be usable, particularly if you took that level in Mesmerist.
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I die a little inside whenever I see the pfsrd names for things like Desna's Shooting Star.
If you're going the 'cha-to-everything-lol' route but want to focus on the spellcasting side of the Sorceror, I'd scrap the Paladin and go Mesmerist instead.
Default spellcasting and very unspecialised weapon damage aren't going to impress. You can get 1-2 bouts of okay damage each day with smite out of Paladin, but the Mesmerist really augments your spellcasting, while providing you with a second set of spells per day, and painful stare lets you pick up the damage when you're fighting. Ultimately though, between Sorc and Mesmerist, you won't find many situations where you would need to fall back on a lousy 1d4+6 attack.
The Mesmerist also gives you 6+int skills per level, which would be very welcome.
the lay on hands scaling gets pretty good at higher paladin levels.... swift action self heal for when your not shooting quickened spells
While true, that would require you to commit, and therefore opt out of the ability to dip more random little abilities all over the place.
Lay on hands is nice, but not as nice as you can get from some ridiculous multiclassed monstrosity.
Question: if your Saves are going to have Cha apply to your Saves from Paladin2, would you be able to have Cha apply a 2nd time with Charmed Life from Swashbuckler2?
Charmed Life (Ex)
At 2nd level, the swashbuckler gains a knack for getting out of trouble. Three times per day as an immediate action before attempting a saving throw, she can add her Charisma modifier to the result of the save. She must choose to do this before the roll is made. At 6th level and every 4 levels thereafter, the number of times she can do this per day increases by one (to a maximum of 7 times per day at 18th level).
I'm fairly sure there was an FAQ ruling by James Jacobs that said no matter the sources you can't apply the same stat to the same thing more than once. When I'm actually at a PC I could double check, but if someone wants to post a link that would be great.
I don't have the link, but you are correct, no double tapping ability scores to stats.
Which, funny enough, makes that Smite Evil almost useless, other than a modest damage bonus.
Well actually I hadn't even thought of that you're totally right
I die a little inside whenever I see the pfsrd names for things like Desna's Shooting Star.
As opposed to Black Tentacles, Floating Disc, and Magnificent Manor?
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I die a little inside whenever I see the pfsrd names for things like Desna's Shooting Star.As opposed to Black Tentacles, Floating Disc, and Magnificent Manor?
Though Acid Arrow is a definite improvement. Melf the Elf was a terrible name for a character.