Dimensional Agility is less for actual casters and more for characters like Monks, people who take Horizon Walker, or find other ways to get access to DDoor where it might be harder to get access to the other spells you mention.
Dimensional Agility is less for actual casters and more for characters like Monks, people who take Horizon Walker, or find other ways to get access to DDoor where it might be harder to get access to the other spells you mention.
Rogue/Horizon Walker. I've run for a dimensional savant rogue before. It's nasty.
There are use cases for Dimensional Agility on full casters, particularly when you get Quicken Spell as an option. I don't think there's a point to it with most classes and builds, though.
Given those 3 spells and referring to it being like a pounce, I presume you are talking about a Magus character.
Certainly the spells you mentioned are awesome, and in some campaigns you are absolutely correct, and encounters at ranges beyond what they can give you are rare. In others, especially as you reach higher levels where more opponents have ranged abilities and mobility abilities of their own, they can become quite common. Personally, I think it is a pretty awesome choice to have (especially if you do good melee damage without spellstrike) and it would be high on my list for a magus character of the appropriate level.
One thing to consider though is the abilities of your party members. Being able to get into melee combat several rounds before your companions can join you is often a very bad thing.
For a magus? No, dimensional agility is not that great due to those spells and spell combat.
For a bard? Then dimensional agility is far, far more useful. And they are another gish capable class- sure, not as great for attacks, but they have both dimensional door and decent enough melee.
Actually, some bard archetypes have fantastic melee. The dawnflower dervish and sorrow soul can both double the bonuses they get from inspire courage (but it only buffs the bard- no party buff, personal melee only)- that is enough to allow them to hit as hard as a full BAB character. Their only flaw is that they are squishy (light armor, d8 health; sorrow soul eventually lets you burn performance rounds on defensive options though).
One thing to consider though is the abilities of your party members. Being able to get into melee combat several rounds before your companions can join you is often a very bad thing.
If you are adjacent to your teammates, you can take them with you, giving them full attacks on their opening round.
Some of those spells have restrictions and limitations that make them notably weaker than dimension door in terms of actual mobility. Force Hook Charge requires line of sight, line of effect (and enough space to move through safely), and is moving you into the adjacent space, which provokes attacks of opportunity. Bladed dash requires you to be able to move into the space you target, so physical barriers prevent you from utilising it properly at all. And while Storm Step is a teleport of sorts, you still need line of sight, line of effect that isn’t blocked by an unbeatable barrier by the spell (like a window or a fairly weak door), and doesn’t grant an additional attack like the other two spells (not really hurting it too badly though since the spell does do damage and grants a teleport to boot)
These spells are really good for getting into melee from close range, and they do that job very well. Dimension door, however, lets you and your allies engage from very, very long range. In conjunction with divinations, you can taxi over your party into a prime fighting position and full attack as part of the same turn.
If your GM allows that, of course. They might argue that you’ve entered a surprise round and therefore can’t full attack. Probably check with your GM if that’s the case. Pretty sure this is a rules grey area even if it is technically possible, since technically you’re already using the full-round action and spell combat is not a full attack, contrary to popular belief..
For a magus? No, dimensional agility is not that great due to those spells and spell combat.
No idea why you’d think that since it is effectively an extremely long range pounce for Magus. While it theoretically reduces the amount of damage you would otherwise do on that round since you didn’t use an attack spell for Spell Combat, you wouldn’t have done nearly as much damage if you didn’t since you’ve engaged on an enemy well beyond what most characters can do via pounce.
If you are a Spell Dancer magus, that allows you to dimension door in, full attack, then dimension door out as a swift action via Spell Dance. Not super effective but a very cool trick. With a series of readied actions from your allies, however, this becomes a lesser scry-and-fry, since spell dance does not specify that the dimension door spell-like ability affects only you, unlike the other spell-like abilities you can use.
For one feat, that options up a lot of possibilities of which only the magus can make use.
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Actually, some bard archetypes have fantastic melee. The dawnflower dervish and sorrow soul can both double the bonuses they get from inspire courage (but it only buffs the bard- no party buff, personal melee only)- that is enough to allow them to hit as hard as a full BAB character. Their only flaw is that they are squishy (light armor, d8 health; sorrow soul eventually lets you burn performance rounds on defensive options though).
I haven't found the Dawnflower Dervish to be squishy at all. With Dervish Dance as a starting bonus feat, you're free to take Toughness as your first feat. I've played a halfling Dawnflower Dervish up to 14th lvl, and have almost always been the most durable character in the party.
Actually, some bard archetypes have fantastic melee. The dawnflower dervish and sorrow soul can both double the bonuses they get from inspire courage (but it only buffs the bard- no party buff, personal melee only)- that is enough to allow them to hit as hard as a full BAB character. Their only flaw is that they are squishy (light armor, d8 health; sorrow soul eventually lets you burn performance rounds on defensive options though).I haven't found the Dawnflower Dervish to be squishy at all. With Dervish Dance as a starting bonus feat, you're free to take Toughness as your first feat. I've played a halfling Dawnflower Dervish up to 14th lvl, and have almost always been the most durable character in the party.
Oh yes- most people play their dawnflower dervish as dex based dervish characters and use the bonus damage as a band aid.
The kind of build I aim for focuses more on doing damage. I usually end up with str based two handed (maybe with a long spear) just because I prefer to have a build that works from the get go.
It is a similar problem as the magus- do you go two handed str based, or dex based dervish? Only the dawnflower leans more towards str than the magus for several reason. The magus has extra hits from spell combat that make up for the lack of damage (also, potential crits on spell strikes). Also, spell combat encourages you to often go 1 handed, which reduces the benefits of str since you aren't two handing.
So str based always shines with the bard in comparison to the 1 weapon/1 handed style of dervish- in comparison, a str magus just has a less resource intensive style (and they eventually patch up their AC with heavy armor at higher levels, while the dervish magus sticks with light armor).
Of course, the REALLY high damage builds can be more dex friendly- archery or TWF (likely with cestus so you can still cast). These styles provide a ton of hits which take advantage of the large static bonuses from double inspire courage+arcane strike. The only flaw with these styles is that they need a ton of feats (and bard doesn't give any bonus feats).
The 1 weapon/1handed style of dervish dancer just doesn't keep up with the damage off other styles. Even if you want to go dex, I would only use it as a transitional style before I can TWF.
the thing is, a magus doesn't need dimensional agility to use dim door as part of a spell combat action, since the spell cast and full attack are all part of the same action.
the thing is, a magus doesn't need dimensional agility to use dim door as part of a spell combat action, since the spell cast and full attack are all part of the same action.
You still can’t make a swift action though, which means no quickened shocking grasp or something similar.
Do you have a source that says that the "After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn" line doesn't apply to other parts of the same action?
I understand where the argument would stem from, since the magus casts the spell as part of a full round action that allows attacks to be made, but without any clarification to that effect it's not the most sensible interpretation of the rules (IMO), even if that is the most "RAW" interpretation.
Parts of the same action aren't "other actions" per definition.
Sure, and I'm asking if there is any clarification that says "Yeah, don't overthink it" or not.
If there's not then there's not.
It's a relevant question because basically only the Magus (or those who steal the spell combat feature) can cast the spell as part of an action that includes other actions, and what I'm wondering is if this interaction has ever been specifically addressed.
Or if it's more a "Hey, don't anyone look into this because they might officially nerf it".