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The Core Rulebook of P1E came out with a list of different skills with some listed applications that, due to it being impossible to make the book big enough to cover every conceivable action that might involve a skill, left some things out. For example, the CRB does not have any rule about fooling any creatures into thinking you’re some kind of animal by voice. Yet, it’s completely reasonable to think that players were trying to accomplish this even at P1E’s beginning, without the specific mechanical representation to adjudicate it, just by rolling what seemed like the appropriate skill against a DC determined by the GM based on his best guess.
Then Ultimate Wilderness comes out and says “Hey, that thing you thought you could do already? Well now, you totally can’t, but here’s a feat to let you do it again.” I’ve never appreciated feats like that. Had Ultimate Wilderness come out and said that it was specifically a, let’s say, Bluff check of DC 18, I think it would have gone over better, even if GMs had been ruling it as a different skill with a different DC, say, Handle Animal DC 15.
And I’m just using Animal Call as an example. I know Ultimate Intrigue had a number of these, too.
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need tech team to let me favorite this more than once...
the baseline assumption is that characters can do anything real world people can do right out of the box. If its not an explicit rule, assume people are cobbling together existing rules to do the same thing before putting a feat restriction on certain uses of skills.
Yes, feats that let you use skills in a new way often should just be in a "Further Ideas for Skills" section, with suggested DCs.
If they then want to make a feat that makes that DC lower for those that specialize in it, then sure, but understand it's a niche feat that may never be taken...but it was already filler anyway. And in some instances, like "Animal Call" that new idea might mesh with several skills, i.e. Bluff, Handle Animal, & Survival. Maybe they have different DCs or even a prereq so that the city guy using Bluff actually needs to roll Kn. Nature too. Or maybe that hunter using Survival goes off Cha for this type of roll?
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In general, I really hope PF2E doesn't have ANY feats for stuff that really anyone (or anyone with skill training) should realistically be able to just do. I hate feats that are just basic combat techniques I would expect every fighter to be able to pull off, I hate feats that are skill options that anyone with enough Bluff should be able to pull off.
I don't mind feats that make the options you have access to more powerful. For example, while really anyone should be able to make a "wild swing" (Power Attack), I'm totally game for a Power Attack feat that makes this option better. I just don't want them to sink into the same rut we saw in 3.5 and PF1e.
In general, I really hope PF2E doesn't have ANY feats for stuff that really anyone (or anyone with skill training) should realistically be able to just do. I hate feats that are just basic combat techniques I would expect every fighter to be able to pull off, I hate feats that are skill options that anyone with enough Bluff should be able to pull off.
I don't mind feats that make the options you have access to more powerful. For example, while really anyone should be able to make a "wild swing" (Power Attack), I'm totally game for a Power Attack feat that makes this option better. I just don't want them to sink into the same rut we saw in 3.5 and PF1e.
I agree completely. It's something that M&M 3E did better than its predecessor, making the various combat maneuvers available to all at a lesser version (+/-2), and improved versions with the Advantages (+/-5). This is something I'd like to see, and also it doesn't unnecessarily cripple Fighters (well, all martial classes) for options.
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This goes back way further. I still grind my teeth at thd number of rogue talents that equate to a few minutes of roleplaying or a half-baked backstory's worth of benefit. I don't need you to waste a talent to tell me your rogue has an in with the local black market--if it's in your backstory, or you do a few favors for Top Hat Timon, you can get the benefits (and drawbacks) in the natural course.