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What are they good for?What do you do with them?I already read the guides and know the class features(arctpyes too) and feats.İt is a fine class but ı just dont know about what to specialise in.What did you do with your own or did you ever see an awesome build for the class?
EDİT:I am asking this for the base class.
Building a Phantom Blade Spritualist.
If I want to play with an eidolon, I'll roll a summoner.
I apperently forgot about the base class part.
Magus is better at being a magus.
Depends are what you are doing.
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Depends are what you are doing.I apperently forgot about the base class part.
Magus is better at being a magus.
Ok.How phantom blade spiritualist is better overall or doing something better than bladebound magus other than the ghost touch part?Please answer it without going for a level 20 build.Almost no one plays that long.
Ok.How phantom blade spiritualist is better overall or doing something better than bladebound magus other than the ghost touch part?Please answer it without going for a level 20 build.Almost no one plays that long.Depends are what you are doing.I apperently forgot about the base class part.
Magus is better at being a magus.
My party already has two dedicated melee and no dedicated casters.
I am building a character that can buff/heal the party while full attacking.
Starting at 1st level.
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That is not the thing ı am looking for mate.I already knew about that one but spells per day is a huge pain.I think magus can do the buff part aswell.I dont know about heal though.Cant they just take pragmatic activator+ ranks in umd.Maybe skill focus?Plus ı already have a level 7 witch with healing patron.Soo even though healing buffing part is nice ı am not sure ı want to do that with my spiritualist just yet.
That is not the thing ı am looking for mate.I already knew about that one but spells per day is a huge pain.I think magus can do the buff part aswell.I dont know about heal though.Cant they just take pragmatic activator+ ranks in umd.Maybe skill focus?Plus ı already have a level 7 witch with healing patron.Soo even though healing buffing part is nice ı am not sure ı want to do that with my spiritualist just yet.
You're not going to be UMDing those wants while attacking, and certainly not at 1st level.
The only healing magus has access to is Infernal Healing.
Spiritualist has better buffs, including Bless at 1st level, when to-hit rolls are a big deal.
Spontaneous casting gets important when you don't know how many times/day you'll need each type of spell.
The Phantom Blade plays nothing like a witch. He'll be on the front lines and likely have the highest AC in the group.
It cant be out of your sight for more than rounds equal to your class level aswell.İf it exceeds this limit it will be sent back to etheral plane for 24 hours which limits the usefullness of that crippiling part since it cant hold spell charge for more than one round.By experience, seeing a player use it in one of the campaign I'm in, this is a problem that is easy to deal with.
Like, the ghost only pass his head through the wall or door of the room you want to scout: you still see his body at your side of the obstacle, so you keep a line of sight with it while it allows you to scry the room as much you want.Doors are the worst foes of normal scouts... they are a joke for a spiritualist.
The phantom is a fool proof, fully safe way, to scout anything that is not more than 100ft away, something no one else can do without spending a spell.
If your phantom is sticking his head into rooms, each occupant of the room will get a perception check to notice.
You may well be walking into rooms whose occupants are fully buffed and waiting for you, or have rooms whose occupants choose to exit the room and initiate combat before you can buff.
If no one wants to play the Cleric, they can fill the part. They get all the status/condition removal spells, they get all the Cure spells, and they even get the big dog Heal spell. I made my Spiritualist to do this as well as be a front-line melee combatant. My Phantom was a Dazzling Display-er, as well as a flank buddy for myself. Phantoms...aren't incredibly great in combat, compared to Eidolons, or even Animal Companions. They get some nice utility abilities, though.
If no one wants to play the Cleric, they can fill the part. They get all the status/condition removal spells, they get all the Cure spells, and they even get the big dog Heal spell. I made my Spiritualist to do this as well as be a front-line melee combatant. My Phantom was a Dazzling Display-er, as well as a flank buddy for myself. Phantoms...aren't incredibly great in combat, compared to Eidolons, or even Animal Companions. They get some nice utility abilities, though.
This is the position I am in.
Nobody want to play the healer and Spiritualist gets all the spells.
I don't like the phantom's combat ability compared to a decent animal companion or eidolon, and the Phantom Blade archetype allows me to be both a fighter and caster in the same round.
I have an ectoplasmatist spiritualist in PFS built to kill undead. I've also been primary healer for groups while continuing to attack. I think the ectoplasmatist is better for healing hybrid than phantom blade due to the reach availability on the lash. There have been a lot of conversations about the ecto vs PB for abilities and, quite frankly, the PB is probably the better offensive version.
For just the base class, you're mostly looking at a support + scout, as folks have said. It's a good support overall, although generally weaker than the cleric due to spell progression.
Spiritualists offer a lot of utility to a party by having tools to handle situations that most classes can't easily deal with. How they do that depends on your build and choice of emotional focus.
My spiritualist is a skill monkey with a good Int, Wis, and Cha and feats that buff her skills and the phantom. Her phantom has Piranha Strike and is a combatant that uses the fear focus to debuff enemies while using phase lurch to scout and flank for allies.
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Checking back the phantom damage.There is no way to do respectable damage with phantom is there.I just cant go beyond anger phantom+lead blades(get it first somehow)+power attack+enlarge phantom with imp natural attack feat.I am correct right?
EDİT:I am sure there are at least a few problems with that anger phantom build aswell.Just too lazy to check it.
Apperently you cant be an incorperal and attack people as well with phantom fighter feat which is shame.
I found nothing in the Phantom Fighter feat or the FAQs that changes how ghost touch works.
Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as both corporeal or incorporeal.
The weapon, in this case, being the phantom's natural weapons.
Just get the phantom a Ghost Touch weapon or amulet of might fists.
That way he can do proper damage as an incorporeal creature. :)
The Phantom Fighter feat gives the phantom ghost touch. It has no need to put the property on an amulet or weapon.
There’s a new archetype for Spiritualist that I believe allows them to get the game’s highest modifiers in perception, diplomacy, or any of some other major skills.
There’s a new archetype for Spiritualist that I believe allows them to get the game’s highest modifiers in perception, diplomacy, or any of some other major skills.How high?Lets say at level 8?
They get level as an untyped bonus to their phantom’s two skills (and to one knowledge check per day). It’s rare to get more than half-level as a skill bonus from your class, and it’s typed sometimes.
Spiritualists can't be the highest given that they don't have Acute Senses on their list.
Spiritualists can't be the highest given that they don't have Acute Senses on their list.
Good grief... that’s a heck of a bonus. Hadn’t seen that one before, and I stand corrected. If you want to build for it, there’s a psychic equivalent to the Ring of Spell Knowledge, the GM might consider psychic casters to be able to use mystic past life, I think you can stack with an arcane or divine archetype to definitely get it through mystic past life, or you can accept an ally’s casting because it’s not personal.
And how is that btter than just dedication phantom and buying that head slot item that grants you skill focus at your phantom's main skills and +4 competence bonus if it is in your mind.
Competence bonuses are common and don’t stack. Use the money to buy a better competence bonus, and you can still take skill focus- maybe as a bonus racial feat. The archetype grants a very large stacking bonus that you can’t get through other means, that’s why it’s better.
Which archtype are we talking about.
Just get the phantom a Ghost Touch weapon or amulet of might fists.
That way he can do proper damage as an incorporeal creature. :)
Neither of these things work. The Ghost Touch weapon doesn't work because phantoms can't use weapons, but the reason the Ghost Touch AoMF doesn't work is a little bit buried.
The reason the phantom can't attack corporeal things while incorporeal is that "Unlike other incorporeal creatures, an incorporeal phantom can’t attack corporeal creatures, except to deliver touch-attack spells using the deliver touch spell ability." It doesn't work like other incorporeal creatures, which can attack normally with their special attacks.
The Ghost Touch property says:
"A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. An incorporeal creature’s 50% reduction in damage from corporeal sources does not apply to attacks made against it with ghost touch weapons. The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as both corporeal or incorporeal."
It does not give you the ability to attack creatures you could not otherwise attack; in fact, a ghost touch weapon has no special ability to harm a corporeal creature above and beyond what a normal weapon does. It can, unlike a normal weapon, be wielded by an incorporeal creature, but the inability to wield its slams is not what is standing between an incorporeal phantom and the ability to attack corporeal creatures; its explicit prohibition on attacking corporeal creatures does that.
Despite the fact that it in some ways acts like it, Ghost Touch is not a symmetrical effect, and does nothing at all for an incorporeal phantom. (It does allow a corporeal phantom to deal full damage to an incorporeal creature, of course.)
Fighting other ghosts is one thing and recon scouting. Also intimidating in rp can be fun. Scaring people with your phantom.
Neither of these things work. The Ghost Touch weapon doesn't work because phantoms can't use weapons, but the reason the Ghost Touch AoMF doesn't work is a little bit buried.Just get the phantom a Ghost Touch weapon or amulet of might fists.
That way he can do proper damage as an incorporeal creature. :)
Per Phantom Fighter: the phantom fighter itself has the ghost touch property.
Your phantom’s natural weapons are treated as having the ghost touch property
The reason the phantom can't attack corporeal things while incorporeal is that "Unlike other incorporeal creatures, an incorporeal phantom can’t attack corporeal creatures, except to deliver touch-attack spells using the deliver touch spell ability." It doesn't work like other incorporeal creatures, which can attack normally with their special attacks.
The Ghost Touch property says:
"A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. An incorporeal creature’s 50% reduction in damage from corporeal sources does not apply to attacks made against it with ghost touch weapons. The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as both corporeal or incorporeal."
Emphasis mine. The phantoms natural weapons count as both corporeal and incorporeal.
It does not give you the ability to attack creatures you could not otherwise attack; in fact, a ghost touch weapon has no special ability to harm a corporeal creature above and beyond what a normal weapon does. It can, unlike a normal weapon, be wielded by an incorporeal creature, but the inability to wield its slams is not what is standing between an incorporeal phantom and the ability to attack corporeal creatures; its explicit prohibition on attacking corporeal creatures does that.
Per the emphasized part of the feat: the phantoms weapons count as corporeal. They can attack corporeal opponents.
Despite the fact that it in some ways acts like it, Ghost Touch is not a symmetrical effect, and does nothing at all for an incorporeal phantom. (It does allow a corporeal phantom to deal full damage to an incorporeal creature, of course.)
Ghost touch as always been a symmetrical effect.
A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as both corporeal or incorporeal.
A ghost is perfectly capable of using a sword (corporeal or incorporeal) with ghost touch to attack both corporeal and incorporeal opponents, they just have little reason to do so.
(Snipped.)
None of this changes the fact that incorporeal phantoms cannot attack corporeal creatures. It's not "what counts as corporeal" that affects what the incorporeal phantom can attack. It's the "can't attack corporeal creatures" rule. I wish this worked, and it's a reasonable GM interpretation that it should, but it explicitly does not. "Count as corporeal" does not grant the ability to attack corporeal opponents, as that has nothing to do with why the phantom cannot attack corporeal opponents. Incorporeal creatures can already attack corporeal creatures without Ghost Touch being involved at all. The phantom specifically cannot attack while incorporeal because it's a rule for phantoms; that rule has nothing at all to do with the rules for being incorporeal. It's confusing, but not ambiguous.
(This, incidentally, is why the Phantom Fighter feat emphasizes that it makes your Phantom "a deadly foe of incorporeal adversaries" instead of "a completely unbeatable threat to a wide variety of corporeal creatures," which would be a much more noteworthy effect. I get that feat fluff text is not rules text, of course, but it's instructive.)
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So basicly you got lower spells per day,lower dc's and a pet that does something like 2d6+4 at level 7-8?Huh.I dont have a problem with underpowered classes but even at that there is a limit.Somethings are to limited for flavor.
EDİT:I know about lust phantoms's agro and fear phantoms fear and others aura but that is just wierd.
(Snipped.)None of this changes the fact that incorporeal phantoms cannot attack corporeal creatures. It's not "what counts as corporeal" that affects what the incorporeal phantom can attack. It's the "can't attack corporeal creatures" rule. I wish this worked, and it's a reasonable GM interpretation that it should, but it explicitly does not. "Count as corporeal" does not grant the ability to attack corporeal opponents, as that has nothing to do with why the phantom cannot attack corporeal opponents. Incorporeal creatures can already attack corporeal creatures without Ghost Touch being involved at all. The phantom specifically cannot attack while incorporeal because it's a rule for phantoms; that rule has nothing at all to do with the rules for being incorporeal. It's confusing, but not ambiguous.
(This, incidentally, is why the Phantom Fighter feat emphasizes that it makes your Phantom "a deadly foe of incorporeal adversaries" instead of "a completely unbeatable threat to a wide variety of corporeal creatures," which would be a much more noteworthy effect. I get that feat fluff text is not rules text, of course, but it's instructive.)
The ghost touch property is more specific than the general rule stating incorporeal creatures cannot attack corporeal creatures.
Because an incorporeal weapon (or natural weapon in this case) is treated as corporeal, limitations on incorporeal attacks are not applicable.
Checking back the phantom damage.There is no way to do respectable damage with phantom is there.I just cant go beyond anger phantom+lead blades(get it first somehow)+power attack+enlarge phantom with imp natural attack feat.I am correct right?
Hatred has decent damage- it gets 1/2 level to damage on its 'hated target' (which ends up as a swift action at level 7 to apply). It also starts to get sneak attack at level 12 (only 3d6 at first, but that is rather good when it is part of a character+pet class).
Eventually, at level 17, it can even attack while incorporeal (hated target only... but that mostly just means 'no AoOs against other creatures', since again- swift action). And at that point, it is also sharing some of its attack/damage bonuses with allies (such as the spiritualist that would flank with it usually).
So hatred is overall basically like having a rogue as your class's pet- it is good for sneaking, and it does sneak attack. You can pretend it is the vengeful spirit of every single rogue killed in class argument threads.
Anger Phantom or Hatred for DPS?
Anger Phantom or Hatred for DPS?
If you use your spiritualist as a flank buddy to get consistent sneak attack? I think hatred.
Just try to have the spiritualist grab a long spear and stay out of reach so they can do spells (I always kind of assume that flank buddies deal less melee damage since they spend a lot of time getting into flank position; there are options to deal with this, but spiritualist doesn't have bonus feats adn such so....)
But it is somewhat slow to start up, since it needs to spend a move action to self buff for its damage (and that is per opponent; so multiple times per fight). It loses that problem at level 7. Its only full pulls ahead in damage at level 12.
Another note- it eventually boosts the spiritualist's attack/damage at later levels. It can give allies a +2 attack/+4 damage against the hated target.
Yeah did ı talk about the ban on instigate psychic duel on games ı play? Also i didnt just talk about damage moonheart.You see ı talked about DC's ı talked about Lower spell per day then the phantom damage and only then.
Honestly, at the very start people told you the one thing spiritualist excel at: low level scouting.
That is it.
The class itself is kinda of a "Jack of all trades, master of none", you can build it fill wholes in the party, even multiple ones at once, but dont hope you can build this to out damage the barbarian, out resource the wizard... it just wont.
I have played more of these than i can remember, my greatest grip was having to deal with being carried basically in each combat, since others min/maxed and were destroying everything. This class just cant keep up.