Hello all, last year we started CotCT and this was my first ever character, I made an Invoker. I am currently sitting at level 11 with some downtime. He's devoted solely to debuffing enemies, I have many control spells, but I don't care for dealing too much damage as I prefer to debilitate. I do have one blasting spell (hellfire rays). I currently have an improved familiar (azata) which I use him yo wield his wand of Ill Oman. I also quite commonly apply melee touch bestow curses via spectral hand to my enemies. I sort of don't know what other things I can use him for. My current feats look like this, please help restructure me.
Human (Invoker) Witch
1- Spell Focus (Necromancy)
1- Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
3- Improved Initiative
5- Accursed Hex
7- Improved Familiar (may eliminate this)
9- Spell Penetration (may eliminate this)
11- Quicken Spell
I really would like to keep Quicken because I want to be able to do Quicken Ill Oman's followed by a slumber or misfortune or other SoS.
I should mention I do have a lesser piercing spell rod for bestow curse. Iay get rid of spell penetration because as an Invoker my bonus is quite good already and it would free up a feat.
Back up one. What do you want to make this character into? The same but somehow better, or a different emphasis, or a different character entirely? If different, what are you looking at?
Did you mean Greater Spell Focus or Spell Focus for a different school for the second feat? Also, I would work in Split Hex if possible, very useful to have.
Yes Greater, has been edited.
Back up one. What do you want to make this character into? The same but somehow better, or a different emphasis, or a different character entirely? If different, what are you looking at?
Same sort of character a debuff witch, but more focused. Right now im all over the place I need to narrow it down a bit more. I'd like to maybe even Additional Trait a magical lineage if there are any good ones a witch has for Necromancy. I do make good use of spectral hand as my rod of extend keeps it going for a long time. So all touch spells are on the table.
Just wondering if Bestow Curse or another necromancy spell would be the one to Magical Lineage through additional traits since a lesser rod of piercing would apply with good success. This campaign our GM said may end at 17, meaning after we defeat the final boss we hit level 17, which means we may only get to use level 8 spells. I may need improved initiative to go first unless there are other spells that can help boost my initiative because I would like to free up the slot.
1- Spell Focus (Necromancy)
1- Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
3- Improved Initiative?
5- Reach Spell?
7- Quicken Spell
9- Additional Traits for magical lineage
11- Split Hex
13- Another metamagic?
15- Spell Perfection
Keep in mind the order is not as important for I am level 11 now.
To penetrate spell resistance I would use my Invoker swift action which unfortunately I couldnt use with a quickened spell, damn. I would also use D. essence to help penetrate SR.
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Remember the swift action is just to start the invokers invoke patron ability. The ability gets used in 1 minute increments so you don't need to do it every round. OK, in a short combat it may not feel like it's worth using a swift action in the second round.
Among the many buffs witches don't get are anything much to do with initiative. Though hermean potential can give you rerolls on ability checks among other things, and an initiative check is technically a dex ability check (for most).
If you're looking for one more metamagic feat then persistent spell is possible. Of if you'd rather keep going on to better, higher level spells like conditional curse, major curse, greater claim identity, wither limb, greater bestow curse etc. then you might want contingent spell to set up a defence (you won't use it with curses of course.)
Do I have better scouting tools than Arcane Eye? GM may rule it won't go underneath doors
Remember the swift action is just to start the invokers invoke patron ability. The ability gets used in 1 minute increments so you don't need to do it every round. OK, in a short combat it may not feel like it's worth using a swift action in the second round.
Among the many buffs witches don't get are anything much to do with initiative. Though hermean potential can give you rerolls on ability checks among other things, and an initiative check is technically a dex ability check (for most).
If you're looking for one more metamagic feat then persistent spell is possible. Of if you'd rather keep going on to better, higher level spells like conditional curse, major curse, greater claim identity, wither limb, greater bestow curse etc. then you might want contingent spell to set up a defence (you won't use it with curses of course.)
I noticed another spell in my search, wracking ray. What are your thoughts on that one? To me for this particular character (Invoker) spell resistance doesn't really matter since this guy drills right through anything. The downside is its a Fort save, but with a ranged touch attack and a Dexterity of 18 (Which I can achieve through the Decisions Invoke Patron ability) it seems this could be a potential winner when you throw in a quickened Ill Oman. Is it almost worth Magical Lineaging Ill Oman since I will be Quickening that the most and just have an arsenal of spells I can pair it with (ie bestow curse and greater, major curse, withering limb, wracking ray etc) ? That to me makes sense, but I may be missing something, your thoughts?
One issue I see is tacking on meta magics onto Ill Oman its rather limited. Quicken works well, not sure if its allowed RAW but a Persistent spell may work on it? Lastly, an Echoing spell?
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Ill Omen has no save of its own - persistent spell isn't needed and won't help it. Echoing & both metamagic reduction traits turn ill omen from a 1st level slot into 2 castings from a 2nd level slot, or quickened ill omen from a 3rd level slot into 2 castings from a 6th level slot. Neither is helpful IMO. Reducing the spell slot needed to quicken it would be useful now but you'd want to retrain that again later when 5th level slots become less relatively valuable.
The big bruisers you want to use wracking ray on have fort as their best save. I'm thinking no.
Insect scouts may be useful to you for scouting. Clairvoyance is occasionally (not often) useful, the casting time is frustrating. Vicarious view looks like your best option - cast it on a piece of paper and slip it under a door, tie it to an arrow etc. Though magic jar has many uses...
Thank you that is awesome I didn't know about Vicarious view! That will prove quite useful. You always have good suggestions, if you were me with this character which spell would you magical lineage with this debuff theme?
Probably I'd use it on a spell which doesn't require an attack roll. While you'll hit most of the time it's an additional possible point of failure, especially when miss chances become an issue. You're high enough level now that the slightly higher level of spells without attack rolls should be survivable.
Maybe major curse? With magical lineage that becomes 6th level w/persistent. You can quicken it with spell perfection. Or magic jar similarly.
There's also Conditional Curse from Ultimate Intrigue, which is exactly like Major Curse, only it's a 4th level spell, and has a duration of "only" one year.
... I currently have an improved familiar (azata) which I use him yo wield his wand of Ill Oman....
As the azata does not have Ill Omen as one of it's spells, it will have to UMD the wand.
The default wand gives a 1-round spell with a single worst-of-two roll.
Using the wand will make it a valid target for the GM.
Consider well before using this tactic.
/cevah
... I currently have an improved familiar (azata) which I use him yo wield his wand of Ill Oman....As the azata does not have Ill Omen as one of it's spells, it will have to UMD the wand.
The default wand gives a 1-round spell with a single worst-of-two roll.
Using the wand will make it a valid target for the GM.
Consider well before using this tactic.
/cevah
ya he does have to make the UMD check which he usually succeeds, but now I prefer getting rid of him and just getting Quicken Spell.
Probably I'd use it on a spell which doesn't require an attack roll. While you'll hit most of the time it's an additional possible point of failure, especially when miss chances become an issue. You're high enough level now that the slightly higher level of spells without attack rolls should be survivable.
Maybe major curse? With magical lineage that becomes 6th level w/persistent. You can quicken it with spell perfection. Or magic jar similarly.
I don't understand how Magic Jar works :( it sounds so cool and would love to use it in battle I would even love to make it my magical lineage because thematically it's amazing but the fact is I just don't know how the spell functions.
Probably I'd use it on a spell which doesn't require an attack roll. While you'll hit most of the time it's an additional possible point of failure, especially when miss chances become an issue. You're high enough level now that the slightly higher level of spells without attack rolls should be survivable.
Maybe major curse? With magical lineage that becomes 6th level w/persistent. You can quicken it with spell perfection. Or magic jar similarly.
Avr, I just did quite a bit of reading on Magic Jar, and it is pretty neat. Which three metamagics you like here? Persistent, Quicken, and does Bouncing look good here? Would that work?
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Quicken certainly works. I'm not absolutely sure whether persistent or bounce do; they should but there's enough wiggle room for a GM to say no if they want to. If they do work then persistent at least looks good, but your limited senses might make bouncing dangerous to use - you may not be able to easily distinguish between allies, a random enemy, or an enemy your barbarian minion friend is about to behead.
Rather than bouncing perhaps take scouting summons? Edit: No, wait, that requires another feat. If you're concerned about swift action usage then piercing spell might still have a use for you. Heighten spell might help sometimes. Or you could take a metamagic for use with other spells. Contingent spell, reach spell, extend spell or whatever.
Quicken certainly works. I'm not absolutely sure whether persistent or bounce do; they should but there's enough wiggle room for a GM to say no if they want to. If they do work then persistent at least looks good, but your limited senses might make bouncing dangerous to use - you may not be able to easily distinguish between allies, a random enemy, or an enemy your barbarian
minionfriend is about to behead.Rather than bouncing perhaps take scouting summons?
Ya that's true not being able to distinguish friend from foe. Hmm, I like that Scouting Summons, only problem is need spell focus conj, I was leaning towards Necromancy for this guy. Hmm any other that caught your eye? Just need it for spell perfection. Is Heighten viable? End game bumping it to level 8 would give it a nice DC hike? Or not as good as an actual level 8 spell?
Yeah, noticed that a little after I posted. I added an edit discussing other feats.
Perfect thank you! My new favorite Witch spell. R.I.P Bestow Curse it was fun while it lasted old friend.
If the mechanics of Magic Jar get in the way try Possession instead.
hmm, just looked at it, it seems very similar just less complicated, less room for GM to wiggle.
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That is why it was written.
Possession and Magic Jar
The old magic jar spell is unwieldy, particularly with respect to creatures like ghosts and shadow demons that don’t really use a jar at all. Consider replacing magic jar with the new possession spells for both spellcasters and monsters. Likewise, consider using spells based on possession rather than magic jar.
That is why it was written.
Possession and Magic Jar
The old magic jar spell is unwieldy, particularly with respect to creatures like ghosts and shadow demons that don’t really use a jar at all. Consider replacing magic jar with the new possession spells for both spellcasters and monsters. Likewise, consider using spells based on possession rather than magic jar.
oh crazy I didn't know it came after, cool thanks.
Have you considered the Ritual Hex feat at all? At your level you'd have no difficulty hitting the DCs and it offers a bit of flexibility with your hexes as well as the opportunity to play with those quirky hexes that are a bit too situational to be taken as a regular hex.
Have never used Ritual Hex, not sure if I have the experience to get maximum value from it