Can I retrieve a scroll form my bag and activate it while grappled?


Rules Questions


This one came up at my table last night. The BBEG witch was stuck in a web spell, meaning she counted as grappled and couldn't use somatic components to cast. Could she retrieve a stored scroll and activate it in that situation?

Here are a few relevant rules:

  • Grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform.

  • Casting Spells while Grappled/Grappling: The only spells which can be cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand.

The first implies that you can retrieve stored items, the second that you can't. Is there a mechanical difference between going for a boot knife in a grapple and digging an item out of a bag? I would have thought that both require only one hand.

Sczarni

Retrieving a scroll is a move action.

Activating the scroll takes however long the spell that's scribed would take to cast.

There is much table variation regarding which concentration bonus to use. Nothing seems to indicate whether you use the scroll's caster level and ability modifier, or yours, since you're the one reading it.

I tend to lean towards using the scroll's, myself. Although that can be problematic in the case of overcoming the DC of a Grapple.


Scrolls still have most of the normal components that casting the spell directly would (see the Spell Completion trigger method). You still have to speak clearly, for example, and you still have to gesture. So, if the spell your witch wanted to cast had somatic components, putting it on a scroll wouldn't help any.

A wand would likely work, because the Spell Trigger activation method specifically says there's no gesturing involved.

Shadow Lodge

You can cast spells with somatic components while having the grappled condition; you cannot while having the pinned condition. This was updated a while ago.


Nefreet wrote:


There is much table variation regarding which concentration bonus to use. Nothing seems to indicate whether you use the scroll's caster level and ability modifier, or yours, since you're the one reading it.

I don't believe activating an item uses the concentration rules at all. As far as I can tell, you can cast from a scroll while taking ongoing damage on a galloping horse in a wind storm. Is there some rule that I'm missing?

EDIT: Yes there was. "Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance."


shaventalz wrote:

Scrolls still have most of the normal components that casting the spell directly would (see the Spell Completion trigger method). You still have to speak clearly, for example, and you still have to gesture. So, if the spell your witch wanted to cast had somatic components, putting it on a scroll wouldn't help any.

A wand would likely work, because the Spell Trigger activation method specifically says there's no gesturing involved.

I think that settles the issue for me. Here's found the rule in question: "A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that’s left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on)."

Great ruling, Shaventalz. Cheers!


Sammy T wrote:
You can cast spells with somatic components while having the grappled condition; you cannot while having the pinned condition. This was updated a while ago.

Wait, really?

The PRD agrees with you. Huh. Checking the errata docs, it looks like that was changed with the 6th printing of the CRB.


shaventalz wrote:

Scrolls still have most of the normal components that casting the spell directly would (see the Spell Completion trigger method). You still have to speak clearly, for example, and you still have to gesture. So, if the spell your witch wanted to cast had somatic components, putting it on a scroll wouldn't help any.

A wand would likely work, because the Spell Trigger activation method specifically says there's no gesturing involved.

I think that settles the issue for me. Here's the rule in question: "A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that’s left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on)."

Great ruling, Shaventalz. Cheers!


Also. Have you ever tried to unroll a scroll, one-handed, while being grappled? I'd say it's probably impossible

Shadow Lodge

shaventalz wrote:
The PRD agrees with you. Huh. Checking the errata docs, it looks like that was changed with the 6th printing of the CRB.

Yeah, you can see Jason Buhlman's 2010 posts on this matter here and here.


Sammy T wrote:
shaventalz wrote:
The PRD agrees with you. Huh. Checking the errata docs, it looks like that was changed with the 6th printing of the CRB.
Yeah, you can see Jason Buhlman's 2010 posts on this matter here and here.

They might have intended to do something about that in 2010, but I just checked - the 5th printing (Nov2011) still had the grappled-can't-cast text on page 206. That wasn't removed until July2013.

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