Vanilla Fighter Weapon Training Understanding


Rules Questions


Okay, so I looked around quite a bit, and haven't seen anything on this topic yet. So I just want to understand the Fighter's Weapon Training and Advanced Training a little better. Posted below is exact wording off the Fighter page. (link: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/ )

Weapon Training

Spoiler:
Starting at 5th level, a fighter can select one group of weapons, as noted below. Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.

Every four levels thereafter (9th*, 13th, and 17th), a fighter becomes further trained in another group of weapons. He gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using a weapon from this group. In addition, the bonuses granted by previous weapon groups increase by +1 each. For example, when a fighter reaches 9th level, he receives a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with one weapon group and a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls with the weapon group selected at 5th level. Bonuses granted from overlapping groups do not stack. Take the highest bonus granted for a weapon if it resides in two or more groups.

A fighter also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with weapons from his group. This bonus also applies to the fighter’s Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against weapons from this group.

Advanced Weapon Training: Beginning at 9th level, instead of selecting an additional fighter weapon group, a fighter can choose an advanced weapon training option (see Advanced Weapon Training below) for one fighter weapon group that he previously selected with the weapon training class feature.

Ignoring feats entirely, and focusing entirely on the wording of this class feature, my question is a simple one. Level 5, pick one weapon group, get +1. Level 9 you have a choice, pick another weapon group to get +1 in OR an advanced training trick. If you pick a weapon group for level 9, it's implicit that your previous group also improves to +2. If you pick an Advanced Weapon Training though, it only says you don't pick another weapon group. So what happens with the extra bonus on the previous weapon group?

As an example, say I pick Heavy Blades Weapon Group for level 5. For level 9, I pick Focused Weapon for Advanced. Does my bonus to Heavy Blades Weapon group improve to +2, or remain at +1?

TL;DR: Does selecting the Advanced Weapon Training still improve the previous weapon group from level 5?


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Fallendemon13 wrote:
If you pick an Advanced Weapon Training though, it only says you don't pick another weapon group. So what happens with the extra bonus on the previous weapon group?

Because the Advanced Weapon Training rules do not make mention of it, the advancement of your original weapon training bonus remains unchanged. You'll get the advancement to +2 at 9th level regardless of whether you decide to take advanced weapon training or not.


Dasrak wrote:
Fallendemon13 wrote:
If you pick an Advanced Weapon Training though, it only says you don't pick another weapon group. So what happens with the extra bonus on the previous weapon group?
Because the Advanced Weapon Training rules do not make mention of it, the advancement of your original weapon training bonus remains unchanged. You'll get the advancement to +2 at 9th level regardless of whether you decide to take advanced weapon training or not.

So the fact that it's all in the same paragraph doesn't matter for the phrase "instead of selecting an additional fighter weapon group", it only matters that I don't pick a new weapon group because I picked advanced training?

I can definitely see how it's read that way, and honestly that makes sense to me. But I could also see it being read the other way, why I wanted to double check... Thank you for the prompt response!


Dasrak is correct. All of your previously selected weapon groups get the +1 increase. You just don’t get to select a new group.


Basically, AWT doesn't remove the "In addition, the bonuses granted by previous weapon groups increase by +1 each." part.

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