#1 no
#2 yes
See magic missiles: "A missile of magical energy darts forth from your fingertip and strikes its target". NO hit involved.
As to differences, "effective" sums it up. It means you roll damage without it being an actual hit.
toastedamphibian: I'm assuming it's a question about Desna's divine fighting technique part II and something like flaming that activates on a hit. The 1d4 effective strikes are the result of a single hit so flaming only activates once.
If there are any differences, what are they?
You apply damage bonus from your appropriate ability score modifier applies to each effective strike, along with other 'normal' damage bonuses [weapon plus, inspire competence, ect].
You apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage), critical hit damage and [damage that only activates once per attack, like flaming] only once no matter the number of effective hits.
1. Yes, based on basic Algebra equations. But this has no bearing on the original issue, so it's largely pointless to ask.
2. Yes, and those differences are mentioned in the effect.
I do agree with toastedamphibian though, that this thread is wholly unnecessary.
I faq'd this and the original thread though i doubt we will see an answer on it. I would recommend looking at some of the bigger post that did get answers and possibly rewording to better explain both sides and provide as many examples as possible.
So you lose your enchantments but don't lose the bonus from enchantments? That seems rather weird.
Nothing is lost. You also don't multiply flaming in a crit, so are you losing it there? Your sneak attack isn't multiplied either... Is it lost?
Things like precision-based damage, critical hit damage and flaming are just treated differently in the rules.
So I disagree 100% that it seems weird: it'd seem weird IMO to add it to each non-hit 'pseudo strike' as you don't add that kind of damage multiple times on a simultaneous attack.
PS: I also agree with the others: as written, the FAQ is unlikely to get traction as it jumps into the middle of a debate without the proper context. Talonhawke had some good advice on seeing what worked in the oast and emulating that to increase the chances of people looking at your question, understanding it and wanting to click the FAQ.
So you lose your enchantments but don't lose the bonus from enchantments? That seems rather weird.If there are any differences, what are they?You apply damage bonus from your appropriate ability score modifier applies to each effective strike, along with other 'normal' damage bonuses [weapon plus, inspire competence, ect].
You apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage), critical hit damage and [damage that only activates once per attack, like flaming] only once no matter the number of effective hits.
If enhancements were lost, then they wouldn't apply even once, even on the initial effective strike. They just don't stack or apply multiple times like bonuses are stated to do in the relevant description.
If there are any differences, what are they?You apply damage bonus from your appropriate ability score modifier applies to each effective strike, along with other 'normal' damage bonuses [weapon plus, inspire competence, ect].
You apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage), critical hit damage and [damage that only activates once per attack, like flaming] only once no matter the number of effective hits.
Except you clearly don't mean the bolded words like most people would read it. As we covered in the other thread you actually mean "once per attack roll that doesn't cause the weapon to discharge more than one shot or strike more than one target".
There is already an effect that gauges one attack roll against multiple enemies, and it's called Whirlwind Attack. If I use this feat, I make one attack against all enemies within reach and check my result against every affected creature's A.C.
The original Rail Gun example would fall closer to Whirlwind Attack mechanics than Divine Fighting Technique mechanics.
Both are not the same as making one attack roll against one enemy to hit them and determine how I "effectively strike" them multiple times, so using those arguments is basically a non sequitur.
There is already an effect that gauges one attack roll against multiple enemies, and it's called Whirlwind Attack. If I use this feat, I make one attack against all enemies within reach and check my result against every affected creature's A.C.
No Whirlwind attack is a seperate roll for each creature.
When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities
The original Rail Gun example would fall closer to Whirlwind Attack mechanics than Divine Fighting Technique mechanics.
So this is nothing like whirlwind attack instead attacking up to 2000 ft worth of creatures off of a single roll.
Both are not the same as making one attack roll against one enemy to hit them and determine how I "effectively strike" them multiple times, so using those arguments is basically a non sequitur.
So we have these arguments from you on "single attack"
1. Manyshot 1 attack roll-1 target-2 projectiles-gets bonus dice because of extra projectile.2. Railgun 1 attack roll-lots of targets-1 projectile-gets bonus dice because different targets.
3. Desna's 1 attack roll-1 target-1 "projectile"-no bonus dice because no bonus dice were listed in the feat using identical wording to manyshot.
Weird, I thought it was only Cleave that had that restriction. Whoops. I do believe there are other abilities that can convey a similar effect, though...
Basically, yes. Manyshot works because multiple projectiles with multiple instances of Flaming and thereby technically gets around the original issue of "1 attack = multiple hits = multiple trigger effects."
Except you clearly don't mean the bolded words like most people would read it. As we covered in the other thread you actually mean "once per attack roll that doesn't cause the weapon to discharge more than one shot or strike more than one target".If there are any differences, what are they?You apply damage bonus from your appropriate ability score modifier applies to each effective strike, along with other 'normal' damage bonuses [weapon plus, inspire competence, ect].
You apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage), critical hit damage and [damage that only activates once per attack, like flaming] only once no matter the number of effective hits.
Oh I clearly meant it, I really, really, really did... As to what 'most people' know, I have no clue, I just know it seems painfully clear to me.
"you can make a single attack" + "If the attack hits" + "only once for this attack". Desna's is clearly and obviously a SINGLE attack and points that out several times and indicates the 'effective strikes' don't gain 'once per attack/weapon' damage sources. I think if I point out those sections to 'most people', they'd say that we're dealing with 1 attack.
If we're still debating 'strike', then I again point out Magic Missile where the text points out it strike without a hit: This shows that a strike doesn't equate to a hit and a hit is what is required for flaming to activate. The feat only hits once but strikes 1d4 times and all the enchant cares about is the hit...
The difference between manyshots and desna's is multiple weapons are used, as arrows are counted as weapons for enchants. The enchant only goes off once per weapon, but each damage roll involves a new weapon/source of damage. Desna is making multiple simultaneous damage rolls with the same weapon but the enchant can only activate once as it's all the same attack.
Once per attack to most people would mean just that that a rail gun or manyshot would be once as well since those are 1 attack.
Many shot is obviously a single attack but no it doesn't point out 'effective strikes' don't gain 'once per attack/weapon' damage sources. It says you only get one sneak attack and critical. In fact the 1st hit is an effective strike so by your reading no hits get flaming since effective strikes don't gain those things.
Many shot also only hits once and but that isn't all we are talking about.
No many shot is still one weapon so it should only go off once per weapon. Manyshot doesn't let you use 2 bows its still one weapon. A railgun is only one weapon but it seems to get around the one weapon feature just fine.
the bow applies its enchants to the arrows but if a weapon hitting twice or more on an attack shuts it down after one strike then the bow probably doesn't imbue that second arrow just like the other 3 prongs of the star knife stop burning after the first one hits.
Once per attack to most people would mean just that that a rail gun or manyshot would be once as well since those are 1 attack.
The difference is the number of weapons used in the attack. Manyshots uses multiple weapons so one/attack effects can activate multiple times because of that. the ONLY reason flaming activates multiple times is the rules for ammo making each piece of ammo it's own weapon.
No many shot is still one weapon so it should only go off once per weapon.
"2 Bows, crossbows, and slings crafted with this ability bestow this power upon their ammunition." EACH ARROW IS A FLAMING ARROW!!! Compare to a a starknife where each point is NOT it's own weapon and isn't bestowed with it's own enchant.
the bow applies its enchants to the arrows but if a weapon hitting twice or more on an attack shuts it down after one strike then the bow probably doesn't imbue that second arrow just like the other 3 prongs of the star knife stop burning after the first one hits.
That'd be a houserule IMO. It's a difference in wording.
Now I wouldn't be opposed to a ruling that does what you suggest [making multishot work like desna's], I just don't see that they are currently are the same.
Railgun: as far as I can tell, railgun would work like desna's as it seems to be a single piece of ammunition.
What does that even have to do with the question at hand?