I've searched and couldn't find this question asked anywhere, so I apologize if the answer to this is plainly obvious. I just can't seem to decide which is the proper interpretation:
When you reset your hand, you may banish a card to draw a spell from your discard pile, then shuffle any number of spells from your discard pile into your deck.
Is banishing a card required to shuffle the spells from your discard pile into your deck? It seems (gramatically speaking) you could choose not to banish anything and still shuffle any number of spells back into your deck. It just feels a bit strong (and makes his "weakness" pointless).
To be consistent with what I said on this thread, I read it indeed as you do not have to banish to "recover" your spells.
The contingency is on the the "When". To make it contingent to the banishing I would expect a sentence like:
When you reset your hand, you may banish a card to draw a spell from your discard pile, if you did so then shuffle any number of spells from your discard pile into your deck.
Now is it too powerful? That's another issue.
Hmmm... the last sentense is Connected with then, so you have to do the previous aka banish before that.
If it would allow you to heal all spells free when you reset your hand, it should start with word and...
Hmm. Frencois' reading renders a strong power -- but Varian is a Wizard who has to discard all the spells he plays. So, he needs a strong power.
You may not attempt checks to recharge spells. When you reset your hand, you may banish (▢ or bury) a card to draw a spell from your discard pile, then shuffle any number of spells from your discard pile into your deck.
I think from the "is it OP" angle, you could argue either way.
But look at a pair of Bards:
On your first exploration each turn, you may encounter the bottom card of your location deck instead of the top card. (□ Then you may shuffle the location deck.)
Are we saying Meliski can shuffle the location deck whenever he begins his Explore step, without encountering the bottom card?
At the start of your turn (□ and after you reset your hand), you may discard 1 spell then add 1 spell from your discard pile to your hand.
Are we saying that twice each turn Lem can just add a spell from his discard pile to his hand, without first discarding a spell?
I argue these cases show the template is "do X, then do Y (if you did X)". You can't do the part after the "then" without doing the part before the "then".
Varian indeed has to spend money (banish or bury a card) to refill his stock of scrolls.
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OK then I could be confused. Which means maybe this needs a clear explanation, if not an errata.
If I compile the two current threads this one and the current one:
Case 1 (CD-Imrikja) :
When you defeat a monster on your turn, you may recharge a card (□ then you may draw a card).
Case 2 (Varian):
When you reset your hand, you may banish a card to draw a spell from your discard pile, then shuffle any number of spells from your discard pile into your deck.
The only difference I see is the "," before the "then". But one could argue that the "," is implicite in the "(□" just because it wouldn't be nice to put one there.
Anyway if in Case 2 Keith says that you must consider the "you may" to govern both the part before the "then" and the one after (even with a coma separator), I don't see how we could argue that it wouldn't be also the case in Case 1.
But then, Keith's comment on the other thread doesn't seems clear because it seems to agree with me... although I was going in the other direction.
This is Xmas and New Year's Eve guys. I had too much Alsace Wine. Don't create puzzles like that that I can't handle when Vic's away.
Happy New Year everyone.
:-)
Frencois' point is what caused my confusion. I knew I had read a similar case in another thread, but couldn't find it. So with Imrijka, the drawing a card isn't dependent on whether you recharge a card.
I got the answer I was looking for, and I had a feeling it was more the intent to banish a card in order to recover the spells (from a thematic perspective). But it's evident the wording is a bit ambiguous and led to an inconsistent ruling with another card.
Thank you all and happy holidays!
Depending on what happens in the other thread, Varian may have to change (ex: When you reset your hand, you may banish a card; if you do, draw a spell from your discard pile, then shuffle any number of spells from your discard pile into your deck.), but if you let him auto-shuffle all spells at the end of his turn that's much better than even auto-recharging spells :)
Depending on what happens in the other thread, Varian may have to change (ex: When you reset your hand, you may banish a card; if you do, draw a spell from your discard pile, then shuffle any number of spells from your discard pile into your deck.)
If it helps, there's another case of similar verbage also in the Pathfinder Tales deck: Wayfinder.
Discard this card to examine the top card of your location deck, then you may shuffle the location deck, then you may explore your location.
Is shuffling the location deck a prerequisite for exploring the location?
but if you let him auto-shuffle all spells at the end of his turn that's much better than even auto-recharging spells :)
Which is what prompted me to ask this question in the first place. If he could auto-shuffle his spells, the text about him not being able to recharge his spells became moot since nobody would ever do that anyway.
Perhaps it is like this: if a power says "Do X then do Y" and X is a cost (recharge/discard/bury/banish), you always have to do X in order to be able to do Y; but if a power says "Do X then you may do Y" and neither X nor Y are costs, then you have the option of doing X then Y or just doing Y.
Varian's power is less clear because it is "you may do X (a cost) to do Y, then do Z". The question has been whether the cost applies to both Y and Z or just Y.
For the Wayfinder, you must discard it and examine the top card; the shuffle and/or explore are optional.
Chief Technical Officer
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If the intent had been to make shuffling independent of banishing, it would look like this:
"When you reset your hand, you may banish a card to draw a spell from your discard pile. Then shuffle any number of spells from your discard pile into your deck."
While this power isn't actually misworded, it would be clearer and more consistent with other cards if we remove the comma: "When you reset your hand, you may banish a card to draw a spell from your discard pile then shuffle any number of spells from your discard pile into your deck." Added to FAQ.
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You can do both; conjunctions are always inclusive in the PACG. Another thread where this was discussed, Mike's post at BGG confirming it.