I think this is a numbers line thing. Die hard math people want the numbers line to start at zero, "movement" people say the bottom number on that number line is 1, Paizo says its 5 (a square).
I am not going to accept that an attack "during this movement" can occur before movement. So for me zero is out - but you can take your normal attack before you move as this feat gives an ADDITIONAL attack during the movement.
Here's another way to think about it:
There are many first tier mythic path features that provide a bonus attack at the cost of a swift action and a use of mythic power. All add the user's tier to the attack roll, bypass damage reduction, and provide a third benefit. In the case of Fleet Charge movement is the third benefit.
I see no reason why a character using such an ability cannot choose to forgo the third benefit. E.g. if you're using Sudden Attack the third benefit is roll twice and take the better result. If for some reason the player only wanted to roll once, would you force him to roll twice?
Or what about Decisive Strike? The third benefit is that an ally gets the attack, but since you count as your own ally, you can make the attack yourself, resulting in an effect identical to Fleet Charge without the movement.
So a character using Fleet Charge without the movement isn't abusing the ability, he's simply not using it to fullest effect.
That's the best argument I have heard to ignore requirement to move!
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This one from Facebook posts, an argument on whether moving 0' is moving. Here is Fleet Charge's description:
"As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to move up to your speed. At any point during this movement, you can make a single melee or ranged attack at your highest attack bonus, adding your tier to the attack roll. This is in addition to any other attacks you make this round. Damage from this attack bypasses all damage reduction."
So, if I expend my mythic power can I attack with these benefits if I don't move from my current melee? Is 0' a "move up to your movement rate" or does 0' disallow this feat because your attack did not occur "at any point during this movement"?
The other abilities of the Trickster include:
Surprise Strike (Ex): As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to make a melee attack or ranged attack against a target within 30 feet, in addition to any other attacks you make this round. When you make a surprise strike, the target is considered flat-footed regardless of any class features or abilities it might have, and you add your tier to the attack roll. Damage from this attack bypasses damage reduction.
while surprise charge say:
Fleet Charge (Ex): As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to move up to your speed. At any point during this movement, you can make a single melee or ranged attack at your highest attack bonus, adding your tier to the attack roll. This is in addition to any other attacks you make this round. Damage from this attack bypasses all damage reduction.
Both abilities give you an extra attack plus something. From a rule writer point of view, if the extra something is meaningless, making two different versions is a waste of space, so the extra part should be considered a integral part of the rule and is needed for it to work.
From a rule text point of view: "At any point during this movement" mean that you should have started the movement and that there should be a movement.
While there isn't an official glossary definition of movement, in the game the use of the term mean "move 5+ feet". Moving within the square it is never a movement.
Here's another way to think about it:
There are many first tier mythic path features that provide a bonus attack at the cost of a swift action and a use of mythic power. All add the user's tier to the attack roll, bypass damage reduction, and provide a third benefit. In the case of Fleet Charge movement is the third benefit.
I see no reason why a character using such an ability cannot choose to forgo the third benefit. E.g. if you're using Sudden Attack the third benefit is roll twice and take the better result. If for some reason the player only wanted to roll once, would you force him to roll twice?
Or what about Decisive Strike? The third benefit is that an ally gets the attack, but since you count as your own ally, you can make the attack yourself, resulting in an effect identical to Fleet Charge without the movement.
So a character using Fleet Charge without the movement isn't abusing the ability, he's simply not using it to fullest effect.
No.
He's using a swift action movement ability, with the bonus of an extra attack, except he wants the bonus without using the core ability.
Everything about Fleet Charge is optional except the movement requirement. That is the core part of the ability: movement.
As pointed out, if all you want is an extra attack, there are more appropriate abilities.
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No one mentioned this but also, the very name contains "charge", the intent of attacking while moving is clear. Not move-equivalent actions, but movement. There are plenty of other ways to get extra attacks, in fact, Sudden Attack is right below it, and is the appropriate champion ability to do what people want.
Also, if you could do it by "moving 0 feet" there would be no need for both Fleet Charge and Sudden Attack. Which makes the intent clear as well. They would not write two Champion's Strike abilities if one is redundant. You MUST choose whether your extra attack is while moving, or whether it is standing still. (or whether it is ranged) otherwise, players are trying to say they get both Champion Strike abilities for the price of one.
There's no restriction on movement listed in the description. Hence, "up to speed" means "no movement" is acceptable.
Close thread.
There's no restriction on movement listed in the description. Hence, "up to speed" means "no movement" is acceptable.
Close thread.
The requirement is "during this movement." If no movement occurs, no attack may take place.
The requirement is "during this movement." If no movement occurs, no attack may take place.There's no restriction on movement listed in the description. Hence, "up to speed" means "no movement" is acceptable.
Close thread.
Fundamentally, this is correct to the RAW, no move, no attack. Close thread.
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There's no restriction on movement listed in the description. Hence, "up to speed" means "no movement" is acceptable.
Close thread.
You forgot the "To move up to your speed." You may not necessarily be moving up to the maximum allowed, but part of spending a mythic point is Moving, and 0 feet is not a distance one can move.
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The requirement is "during this movement." If no movement occurs, no attack may take place.There's no restriction on movement listed in the description. Hence, "up to speed" means "no movement" is acceptable.
Close thread.
Actually, the game doesn't care. If you spend a Mythic Power to activate this ability, you have to move. You MAY attack, but you MUST move as a part of activating this power, even if it's only 5'.
I want to make a suggestion here.
If he spends the action, and moves, while in a threatened square we can say he provoked an AoO.
How is this meaningfully different from moving 5ft, then moving back to your origional spot, and then making the attack. You provoke, and get to attack from your original square.
I want to make a suggestion here.
If he spends the action, and moves, while in a threatened square we can say he provoked an AoO.How is this meaningfully different from moving 5ft, then moving back to your origional spot, and then making the attack. You provoke, and get to attack from your original square.
If he moves back and forth, he provokes from both squares. If there are any enemies that only threaten the second square (the one you'd enter and leave for your movement), then they'd get an AoO from your movement which they wouldn't get otherwise.
Which is a pretty big "if".
I want to make a suggestion here.
If he spends the action, and moves, while in a threatened square we can say he provoked an AoO.How is this meaningfully different from moving 5ft, then moving back to your origional spot, and then making the attack. You provoke, and get to attack from your original square.
You may provoke from a second person, trigger a trap, etc. as a result of moving to or leaving the new square.
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doesn't have to be, n owere does it say that it is just that if you are using a grid each square is 5 feet if you don't use a grid there is no reason why your movement should be chopped up into blocks of 5 foot movementsit says you may move up to your speed if you speed is 30 your movement range is 0-30 and at any point you can make an attack that does xNot in this game. Your move is from 5' to X (max movement). Anithying under 5' is not a movement, here.
Pathfinder is not designed for handling incremental movement like a true war-game would be. Movement is all done in multiples of 5', and every aspect of game design hinges on this philosophy. All spells have ranges in multiples of 5. All abilities have reaches/areas in multiples of 5. All movement speeds are in multiples of 5, and in the few cases where they aren't (Elves, for example, have several Favored Class Bonuses that give them 1' speed per level) they are called out has having no effect UNTIL they reach a multiple of 5.
Now, if you'd like to run it differently in your own game, that's your prerogative. More power to you. The base rules all work in increments of 5', and if you are required to move by an effect, that movement must be at least 5'. This effect mandates movement, not in a general sense, but in a mechanical sense, and not moving isn't moving.
it says you may move up to your speed if you speed is 30 your movement range is 0-30 and at any point you can make an attack that does x
It also clearly says the attack occurs during movement, so even if you discard the Pathfinder 1 square for movement (5 to 30), you end up with a number-line of 1-30 to actually move. If you discard the 5' movement of the game, you have to allow AOO on moving less than five feet if the square is threatened - which kills off the idea of a five foot step completely - but that's your house rule decision.
it says you may move up to your speed if you speed is 30 your movement range is 0-30 and at any point you can make an attack that does xIt also clearly says the attack occurs during movement, so even if you discard the Pathfinder 1 square for movement (5 to 30), you end up with a number-line of 1-30 to actually move. If you discard the 5' movement of the game, you have to allow AOO on moving less than five feet if the square is threatened - which kills off the idea of a five foot step completely - but that's your house rule decision.
I keep telling myself that one day I will break out my wargaming terrain and tape measures and completely ditch the grid.
The problem is getting everyone else to go along with it.
The bottom line is that the character has to move for it to be considered movement. Anyone arguing otherwise is an advocate of the Ancient Aliens argument.
Yes.
You can even make the attack in the same square as before you used the ability.
But you still need to move a distance of 5 feet (1 square) or more as part of the ability.
So I ask again. If you move your full movement, can you make the attack?
Yes, but you must move at least 5' as part of the action. The movement can be after attack resolution.