Why would a summoner bard be a bad idea?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Silver Crusade

I hear a lot of people saying it would be sub-par only due to the spell lagging behind 9th level casters in what you can summon, but imo theres nothing worth summoning past level 6 until level 9 anyway.

So I don't really see the problem here.


It's not just that, it's that you get the same stuff later. By the time you get to 7th level and can summon, say, a dretch, a wizard could Summon something stronger, or even multiple dretches.

Edit:

So as an example, at 16th level when you can summon a single triceratops, a wizard can manage 1d4 + 1 triceratops.

Silver Crusade

MageHunter wrote:
It's not just that, it's that you get the same stuff later. By the time you get to 7th level and can summon, say, a dretch, a wizard could Summon something stronger, or even multiple dretches.

True though i also imagine that a wizard will generally just sit back and let their summon do all the work while a bard would more or less go into the thick of it with their summon, that's how i see it going down.


I'm not sure exactly what you mean with those numbers. A bard could cast SM I at first level like anyone else, SM II at 4th like any other spontaneous caster, but SM III comes at 7th level which is later than a full caster (prepared full casters can get SM IV then) and it only gets worse from there.

Also, as a 6-level caster they don't get a lot of spell slots. But the real killer is that they have no options to summon monsters as a standard action, which makes summoning so much easier for the summoner class, clerics, occultist arcanists, even wizards with the acadamae graduate feat.


I personally believe the Eidolon is the main point of summoner. They're already strong, and being able to use Bard to buff them further to help make up the lower hitdice at later levels seems pretty useful to me.

Silver Crusade

Bard isn't so great at summoning, but a Skald rocks at it. Make your summons, then start Inspired Rage and hand out rage powers to all your summoned creatures.


You could go Summoner VMC Bard to get what you want -- Summoner to do the monster summoning as usual, and VMC Bard gives you a decent subset of Bard. DON'T do the reverse -- VMC Summoner DOESN'T give you a decent subset of Summoner.

Unfortunately, no VMC Skald exists, and Skald VMC Summoner would be terrible for the same reasons Bard VMC Summoner would be bad.

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