Mouser: Ways to stay with opponent / prevent movement

[kaisc006]

The Mouser archetype's Underfoot Assault ability seems cool.

Underfoot Assault:

Underfoot Assault (Ex): At 1st level, if a foe whose size is larger than the mouser’s is adjacent to her and misses her with a melee attack, the mouser can as an immediate action spend 1 panache point to move 5 feet into an area of the attacker’s space. This movement does not count against the mouser’s movement the next round, and it doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. While the mouser is within a foe’s space, she is considered to occupy her square within that foe’s space.

While the mouser is within her foe’s space, the foe takes a –4 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks not made against the mouser, and all of the mouser’s allies that are adjacent to both the foe and the mouser are considered to be flanking the foe. The mouser is considered to be flanking the foe whose space she is within if she is adjacent to an ally who is also adjacent to the foe. The mouser can move within her foe’s space and leave the foe’s space unhindered and without provoking attacks of opportunity, but if the foe attempts to move to a position where the mouser is no longer in its space, the movement provokes an attack of opportunity from the mouser. This deed replaces opportune parry and riposte.

However, it's useless if the opponent can just 5 ft. step away and avoid the entire purpose of the ability (to occupy their space to provide flanking / penalties if they don't target you.) Sure you get an attack of opportunity but if you're banking on that then this is just a sub-par parry & riposte.

The thoughts I had don't seem to work.

Step Up:

Whenever an adjacent foe attempts to take a 5-foot step away from you, you may also make a 5-foot step as an immediate action so long as you end up adjacent to the foe that triggered this ability. If you take this step, you cannot take a 5-foot step during your next turn. If you take an action to move during your next turn, subtract 5 feet from your total movement.

Doesn't work in this context because it says you must end up adjacent. Within their square is not adjacent.

Stand Still:

When a foe provokes an attack of opportunity due to moving through your adjacent squares, you can make a combat maneuver check as your attack of opportunity. If successful, the enemy cannot move for the rest of his turn. An enemy can still take the rest of his action, but cannot move. This feat also applies to any creature that attempts to move from a square that is adjacent to you if such movement provokes an attack of opportunity.

I could be wrong but it doesn't work because the attack of opportunity triggered by Underfoot Assault not from the defined attack of opportunity triggers. This also seems rather difficult to pull off as a small character.

So are there any feats / rogue talents / strange abilities that could help with this?

[Wiggz]

kaisc006 wrote:

Within their square is not adjacent.

That seems to be the crux of the argument, but I've never seen anything that actually supports this interpretation. The rules DO say that anyone within 5' is adjacent and I have to believe that sharing a 5' square is within 5'.

This thread might be necro'ed, but has anyone ever found a legitimate argument against this? I can't remember it being settled definitively.

[VoodistMonk]

Isn't Mouser just a dip for Vexing Dodger?

At which point, you are probably going to be using the Limb-Climber ability to stay with your opponent.

As for a definitive answer on whether or not occupying the same square as an opponent is the same as being adjacent... I don't know of anything official, and it's probably too late to expect an official answer.

Neither Mouser nor Vexing Dodger provide specific wording that you are still considered adjacent whilst you occupy the same square as your opponent...

In fact, the Vexing Dodger actually has the wording that distinctly says while adjacent OR occupying the same space. Meaning that the two conditions are completely separate from each other.

Mouser also goes on to clarify that you are considered to occupy your own square within the same space as your opponent, further reinforcing that you are not to be considered anywhere else (such as in an adjacent square).

Ultimately, the answer appears to be a hard no for Step Up/Stand Still in this particular case...

Although, at least at my table, I would probably allow them both to work with a Vexing Mouser because it makes sense in the spirit of the build, but your mileage may vary.

[zza ni]

max out your trip and use the aoo to trip them. that should keep them in place.

[Evilserran]

Yes except you are already at a decent penalty for size difference alone...