Our group has gotten 2 starship combats in now, and the last one was boooooring. The first one probably would have been even more so (we had some serious advantages making the fight easy) but we didn't notice because we ere caught up learning the rules.
This is clearly in part because the Gunner is the only one with any appreciable impact or difficulty in their role and roll. The rest of us really exist to buff the gunner or debuff the enemy. At our low levels there are usually only 2 options, one clearly useful for buffing or debuffing each. Both with TNs so low that those of us actually intended to be starship crew have little to no difficulty accomplishing the tasks. (I have spent both combats rolling to see if I got a 1.) The only person who has had a failure rate other than the Gunner is our Engineer. A Soldier who expected to only be the backup, but since the Technomancer can't be on 2 consoles at once they ended up being the primary. Even they still statistically should be doing confident betting odds. (Their dice disagree apparently.)
This could easily be changed if those of us who are very good at our jobs could attempt the higher difficulty more varied actions. But we can't, because we aren't high enough level. We aren't tall enough to ride that ride. My question is... why was this design decision made? Why limit our choices artificially? If I've got the skill to pull it off, why can't I? And even if I don't, why can't I attempt a desperate gambit?
Does your ship only have one weapon?
If not, anyone can switch roles at the start of the turn to fire their own weapon instead of doing another role. There is no real effect if any of the roles are not taken. Even the pilot can take control of a gun and use the "glide" action to control the ship.
It sounds odd that you found space combat boring, is your crew taking advantage of all the available tactical options? Scanning to figure out the enemy ship's layout, maneuvering to claim your own firing lines while denying the enemy theirs etc? We could really use some more information here - your/their ship design, what classes are in your party and what roles they're filling etc.
Granted we've only had a few practice fights to get a feel for the system but my group has been having a blast so far, and the more I get into the system the more I see possibilities and opportunities to do fun stuff. :)
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I'm starting to find starship combat tedious although not boring (played and run more than 10 combats at this point).
The first few rounds seem fun as one basically figures out which tactics are optimal for this fight. Then one just rolls dice a lot.
The pilot makes the initiative roll so that is always exciting. And a long way from guaranteed.
The gunners miss as often as they hit.
But yeah, until the enemy starts hitting hard the science officer and engineer rolls are pretty easy.
In one battle, the pilot often did harder maneuvers (fly by). Almost certainly because he was bored because it was a REALLY silly gamble (we basically totally outclassed the other ship and were guaranteed to win eventually. The fly by let us win quicker at the risk of us losing. A really bad gamble).
One thing that keeps combat somewhat interesting is the fact that one round of bad rolls can change things a lot. A lucky crit can change things substantially.
Does your ship only have one weapon?
If not, anyone can switch roles at the start of the turn to fire their own weapon instead of doing another role. There is no real effect if any of the roles are not taken. Even the pilot can take control of a gun and use the "glide" action to control the ship.
No, we have multiple weapons. However, if I'm using the Glide action that means no Evasive Maneuvers to potentially get missed (it has saved us from a hit so far) but more importantly, being far more likely to not have a good firing or receiving arc. Both ships we have fought have been faster than ours, so that's a serious consideration.
It sounds odd that you found space combat boring, is your crew taking advantage of all the available tactical options? Scanning to figure out the enemy ship's layout, maneuvering to claim your own firing lines while denying the enemy theirs etc? We could really use some more information here - your/their ship design, what classes are in your party and what roles they're filling etc.
Granted we've only had a few practice fights to get a feel for the system but my group has been having a blast so far, and the more I get into the system the more I see possibilities and opportunities to do fun stuff. :)
All I do in a fight is maneuver and evade. The Science officer generally sets up the scans, although we switched her to a 2nd gunner partway through last fight because using the light weapon to strip shields before hitting with the big one was wasting the targeted crit. The Engineer and Captain also are usually using one of their options each turn. So yes, I'd think we are taking advantage of the available tactical options.
I'm starting to find starship combat tedious although not boring (played and run more than 10 combats at this point).
The first few rounds seem fun as one basically figures out which tactics are optimal for this fight. Then one just rolls dice a lot.
The pilot makes the initiative roll so that is always exciting. And a long way from guaranteed.
The gunners miss as often as they hit.
But yeah, until the enemy starts hitting hard the science officer and engineer rolls are pretty easy.
In one battle, the pilot often did harder maneuvers (fly by). Almost certainly because he was bored because it was a REALLY silly gamble (we basically totally outclassed the other ship and were guaranteed to win eventually. The fly by let us win quicker at the risk of us losing. A really bad gamble).
One thing that keeps combat somewhat interesting is the fact that one round of bad rolls can change things a lot. A lucky crit can change things substantially.
Right. This is closer to my main point. The Gunner clearly has a lot of interesting things going on, the rest... not so much. They help, but there isn't nearly the ever present chance of failure. Or if you do fail, you often just lose a +2 to someone else's action. Not a critical problem, unlike the lost damage of a miss causing you to fall behind the damage/repair curve.
My primary concern has been making sure I as a player position our ship in the most advantageous spot. The skill rolls are not a factor in doing this, since I only fail on a 1. I would need to be in a ship 5 tiers higher than me to be near even odds. I can totally understand your Pilot intentionally taking a riskier maneuver, if only to make things more interesting for them. I'd do it too if I were allowed. But since that maneuver requires a certain number of ranks in Piloting, you can not attempt it for quite a few levels. All the interesting maneuvers and actions are like that.
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The answer is that it really depends on the situation. In a couple of fights we’ve found that the pilot’s ‘initiative check’ is really useful as their ship had arcs with no weapons, and if we got to manuver second, we could avoid fire that round (so a captain aiding another on piloting for initiative as called for.). There have been several times when our Engineer has needed to divert power to shields or patch systems. . . And the captain giving the enemy crew a universal -2 to all actions for a few rounds is pretty big.
Something to consider is maybe put some stuff into space battles to make them interesting. Have debris about, or put them into a space minefield. There are s few SFS scenarios that do that and it spices things up considerably.
No, we have multiple weapons. However, if I'm using the Glide action that means no Evasive Maneuvers to potentially get missed (it has saved us from a hit so far) but more importantly, being far more likely to not have a good firing or receiving arc. Both ships we have fought have been faster than ours, so that's a serious consideration.Does your ship only have one weapon?
If not, anyone can switch roles at the start of the turn to fire their own weapon instead of doing another role. There is no real effect if any of the roles are not taken. Even the pilot can take control of a gun and use the "glide" action to control the ship.
The main reason you would say yes or no to the glide action is firing arcs. If the enemy ship has poor movement or you are fighting at long range then firing arcs are less of an issue. In this case Glide is very good.
Don't forget that glide grants a bonus to your ships AC and TL equal to the number of ranks you have in piloting. So past level 2 it is better defensively than evade, but your ability to turn is badly hampered.
Having a dedicated pilot also grants you the pilot's ranks in Piloting to AC and TL, which is the same bonus. And no, you can't somehow combine them, because Gliding is only possible if you do not have a pilot to begin with. All else being equal, Evade will only give worse defenses than Glide if you fail the check by 5 or more. Glide has its uses, and your defenses are better if you Glide than if you have no one take any pilot actions at all, but it is never better than actually having a dedicated pilot if you can afford to have someone filling the role.
One important thing about Glide -- if there is no pilot, then you lose initiative every round, because it's the pilot who makes the initiative check. It looks like if you are pilot, there's nothing stopping you from performing glide, but I'm not sure why you would want to, as maneuvering as thistledown says can make or break a combat, especially if your enemy has one or two very big weapons.
Don't forget that glide grants a bonus to your ships AC and TL equal to the number of ranks you have in piloting. So past level 2 it is better defensively than evade, but your ability to turn is badly hampered.
If you are using the glide maneuver, you by definition don't have anyone taking a pilot action, and thus do not have a pilot. Which means you are not adding a pilot's piloting skill to the AC and TL of the ship. Glide just lets someone who is not the pilot add their piloting skill to bring the AC and TL back up to where it should be. Glide is strictly inferior to a successful evade action by a pilot, which adds their piloting skill to AC and TL of the ship (because they are the pilot) and then an extra +2 on top of that from the circumstance bonus.
I've found the Pilot to be far more important than the gunner. Positioning and facing are everything in ship combat.
I'm not saying the Pilot is unimportant. Just that it is incredibly boring since I'm not allowed to attempt the maneuvers that would actually be something of a challenge.
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I've found the Pilot to be far more important than the gunner. Positioning and facing are everything in ship combat.
Very often yes. But there are exceptions. For example, there are combats where you have the significantly better ship in general but the enemy pilot is so much better than you that you're almost always going first and all the pilot can do is take the +2 on defences.
...Which means you are not adding a pilot's piloting skill to the AC and TL of the ship. Glide just lets someone who is not the pilot add their piloting skill to bring the AC and TL back up to where it should be....
Ahhhh! Now it makes sense!
When I looked at it I saw the bonus according to ranks and thought... "that's way better than the +2 for evade."