Morning all-
I had a question regarding a new campaign I've been playing in. I play a paladin following Iomedae. Last session, we were in combat with goblins. The last goblin left quickly dropped all his weapons and pleaded for his life. I took him prisoner and protected him through other fights.(I felt once he dropped his weapons he was no longer a equal opponent). Since leaving the ruins, I've clothed and fed him. I've discussed Iomedae to him. So far my diplomacy has been successful and he's been helpful to the group. He continues to remain tied to me as I don't want to risk the village or group's safety by releasing a goblin back into it. I received a message from my DM today that said that having a slave was not paladin like. I can impose atonement or a punishment but slavery cant be that. My plan is to not keep the goblin as a slave, but instead convert him from evil to good. If I'm successful in this, I plan to invite him on my journey to go to the Star Cathedral. I don't plan to keep him chained but instead when he is no longer a threat, allow him free-will to stay with me or leave. If he chooses to stay I plan to equip him in gear worthy for such an adventure and gladly lay down my life for him.
Does anyone see anything wrong with this situation or have ideas on how to handle this further?
Thanks.
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I think a lot of it depends on what you are having the goblin do. If he's responsible for a lot of the grunt work around your camp or anything, then you are treating him as a slave. If he is doing only a small share of the work and being fed well and things, then he is not a slave, only a prisoner, and there is nothing wrong with that.
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You're treating him well, you're not claiming to own him, and you're not forcing him to do hard labor beyond helping out around camp. Meanwhile you're trying earnestly to show him a better path in life. Sounds like a prisoner, not a slave.
That said, your GM may have other reasons for wanting the NPC gone. Perhaps plot reasons, or maybe they find it uncomfortable role playing a goblin in this situation. It sounds like your GM has reached out to you -- talk with them about it.
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Quick update:
I reached out to the DM he actually likes the idea of having him around but wanted to make sure I didn't make him a slave. He is currently my prisoner and I've treated him as such. I've also had to stand up for him when our groups barb decided to try torturing the goblin.
We are about to enter a town to return a stolen boy which has been harassed for months by goblins. I imagine I will have my work cut out for me to ensure the town doesn't hurt my prisoner for their desire for blood.
But as my code says; When in doubt, I may force my enemies to surrender, but I am responsible for their lives. Since I'm now responsible for his life and I believe he can atone from his sins I better get a great speech prepared and may the dice gods be on my side as well.
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Consider working out with your GM some way of measuring progress, or establishing the success or failure of your efforts. There is good fodder for storytelling here, but it may be useful to have some kind of metric.
It's also possible to do it strictly with role-playing, of course. Another thing to talk over with the GM.
Alright, so another update. My GM is allowing me to keep Gornak since have treated him well and he is a Chaotic Neutral alignment at the moment and is clearly in his best interest to remain with me. We will be returning to a town where goblins have raided and stolen children to feed the bugbear in order to prevent themselves from being eaten. My GM stated that the town will clearly want blood for their losses and I will have to make a speech to argue for his life and hopefully the rolls are gracious to me as well.
Any thoughts on a speech? I will say I'm still fairly new at role playing so this is really pushing me out of my comfort zone which I like but also unsure where to start.
Any suggestions would be awesome!
Take 10 on the speech... and pick up all the bonuses you can think of to boost the Diplomacy skill check...
For the Roll-Play parts...
Masterwork Tool? Perhaps some type of "uniform" for Gornak that aligns him with you as a follower of Iomedae (hard for him, as he is C/N and that's kind of far from L/G - but if he's directly under your supervision). This might be easier if you two were Serenrae - as she is all about Redemption and all that, but you work with what you've got.
Do you have access to some spells to boost your skill checks? friendly Wizard or maybe cleric to cast some on you? Check with the other players/PCs maybe they can come up with some suggestions "in setting/game"... Guidance at the least ... maybe something like Cultural Adaptation...
If this were a PFS game, I would recommend some Boons or Pathfinder Tales Chronicles...
For the role play parts:
"He who is without sin cast the first stone...." etc.
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Whipping up a quick speech on the fly...
"This Goblin is my prisoner, and it is my holy mission to accomplish a seemingly impossible task: to transform this little monster, named Gornak, into an agent of good. This will be a testament to the grace of Iomedae, and her favor granted unto me proves that this is a mission most worthy!
Some few among you may be corrupted by bloodlust, ignorance and cruelty, and might want to cheat me, a holy paladin, of my mission. You may want to harm Gornak simply because of what he is, rather than how he conducts himself. I implore you to resist your hatred, your selfishness, your ignorance! Learn grace and forgiveness where it is appropriate, as it is for Gornak who is my prisoner and my mission.
And fear not, because Gornak is under my watchful eye, and should he become a threat to you good people, he will meet a bloody end by these hands. First and foremost, I am a protector of the innocent, and a destroyer of evil, and rest assured I have proven my worth in combat: On my travels, many corpses have been left to fester in my wake and, with so much evil in this land, my righteous path will continue to be soaked in the blood of murderers and monsters alike.
But enough about violence and death and evil. If you wish for my favor, and for the blessings which Iomedae has kindly given me to share, please help me show Gornak how good and kind people behave. Help me to show him what generosity and hospitality and respect looks like, and how it inspires the same in return. With luck and the hand of Iomedae, Gornak may prove his worth, and understand the value of community, of family. This is something I know you good folk are suited for, because I look at your faces and I see good neighbors, loving families, diligent and proud workers. You can be the model for Gornak, the goal to emulate. I pray I am right in this, but ultimately that is up to you."
Hope that gives some ideas.
page 28 and 29 of the (3.5) Book of Exalted Deeds book concerns mechanics and processes for redemption of characters and sounds very much like what you are describing. It is not Pathfinder rules but could possibly give you ideas on what happens with your efforts.
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I believe there's a Pathfinder-specific redemption system in the player's guide for Wrath of the Righteous.
Malignor wrote: Whipping up a quick speech on the fly...
"This Goblin is my prisoner, and it is my holy mission to accomplish a seemingly impossible task: to transform this little monster, named Gornak, into an agent of good. This will be a testament to the grace of Iomedae, and her favor granted unto me proves that this is a mission most worthy!
Some few among you may be corrupted by bloodlust, ignorance and cruelty, and might want to cheat me, a holy paladin, of my mission. You may want to harm Gornak simply because of what he is, rather than how he conducts himself. I implore you to resist your hatred, your selfishness, your ignorance! Learn grace and forgiveness where it is appropriate, as it is for Gornak who is my prisoner and my mission.
And fear not, because Gornak is under my watchful eye, and should he become a threat to you good people, he will meet a bloody end by these hands. First and foremost, I am a protector of the innocent, and a destroyer of evil, and rest assured I have proven my worth in combat: On my travels, many corpses have been left to fester in my wake and, with so much evil in this land, my righteous path will continue to be soaked in the blood of murderers and monsters alike."
Hope that gives some ideas.
A bit too holier than thou for my taste. Were I the GM, after this speech, the crowd would rush the Paladin and beat him and force him to watch while they make the child-stealer suffer for their awful losses
The last part about killing monsters (including Gornak if need be) is okay though.
Now, your party could help you prepare for this, maybe with trophies taken from all the actual monsters (and goblins) they killed.
Putting the people in fear of Righteous Iomedae's divine anger might work too
Or playing on words, though not actually lying. Things like "this goblin will face the justice of Holy Iomedae. And I am sure that his fate will be one that all goblins dread. But it is not for eyes and minds such as yours, and for that I am sorry."
This however heavily depends on how your GM interprets the "Do not lie" tenet of the Paladin code
The Raven Black wrote: Malignor wrote: Whipping up a quick speech on the fly...
"This Goblin is my prisoner, and it is my holy mission to accomplish a seemingly impossible task: to transform this little monster, named Gornak, into an agent of good. This will be a testament to the grace of Iomedae, and her favor granted unto me proves that this is a mission most worthy!
Some few among you may be corrupted by bloodlust, ignorance and cruelty, and might want to cheat me, a holy paladin, of my mission. You may want to harm Gornak simply because of what he is, rather than how he conducts himself. I implore you to resist your hatred, your selfishness, your ignorance! Learn grace and forgiveness where it is appropriate, as it is for Gornak who is my prisoner and my mission.
And fear not, because Gornak is under my watchful eye, and should he become a threat to you good people, he will meet a bloody end by these hands. First and foremost, I am a protector of the innocent, and a destroyer of evil, and rest assured I have proven my worth in combat: On my travels, many corpses have been left to fester in my wake and, with so much evil in this land, my righteous path will continue to be soaked in the blood of murderers and monsters alike."
Hope that gives some ideas.
A bit too holier than thou for my taste. Were I the GM, after this speech, the crowd would rush the Paladin and beat him and force him to watch while they make the child-stealer suffer for their awful losses. Yeah, things would not end well for whoever gave this speech.
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Rysky wrote: The Raven Black wrote: Malignor wrote: Whipping up a quick speech on the fly...
"This Goblin is my prisoner, and it is my holy mission to accomplish a seemingly impossible task: to transform this little monster, named Gornak, into an agent of good. This will be a testament to the grace of Iomedae, and her favor granted unto me proves that this is a mission most worthy!
Some few among you may be corrupted by bloodlust, ignorance and cruelty, and might want to cheat me, a holy paladin, of my mission. You may want to harm Gornak simply because of what he is, rather than how he conducts himself. I implore you to resist your hatred, your selfishness, your ignorance! Learn grace and forgiveness where it is appropriate, as it is for Gornak who is my prisoner and my mission.
And fear not, because Gornak is under my watchful eye, and should he become a threat to you good people, he will meet a bloody end by these hands. First and foremost, I am a protector of the innocent, and a destroyer of evil, and rest assured I have proven my worth in combat: On my travels, many corpses have been left to fester in my wake and, with so much evil in this land, my righteous path will continue to be soaked in the blood of murderers and monsters alike."
Hope that gives some ideas.
A bit too holier than thou for my taste. Were I the GM, after this speech, the crowd would rush the Paladin and beat him and force him to watch while they make the child-stealer suffer for their awful losses. Yeah, things would not end well for whoever gave this speech. I agree, I believe I will have my hands full when giving this speech and with what the goblins have done to this village I don't know how successful I will be. I also don't think that as a Paladin; and the goblin being my prisoner, I can simply allow the village to take him from me and kill him. If my speech and dice fail me, I do plan to use non-lethal damage on anyone that attempts to take him from me as my party and I leave the village. I have three other party members that support my cause and plan to also offer support. However, if I fall to protecting him I find it a good worthy death.
You have a sap?
Or (as my ranger calls it) "Dwarven Diplomacy?"
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So do not enter the village.
Avoid the confrontation.
Have the rest of the party meet you on the other side.
Sometimes you execute your prisoner for his crimes, which you have just witnessed him committing, and such policy is particularly appropriate when you're the duly-authorized representative of a just, legitimate authority which has tasked you to that very purpose (e.g., the king hired the PCs to clean out the monsters).
Lawful-stupid (i.e., LN alignment) is something paladins need strive to avoid, but by the same token they also need to shy away from vacillating-moist-towelettery (i.e., NG alignment).
-- This may not apply to the OP's case (since that ship has sailed), but it's something to keep in mind.
My speech would be pretty simple.
"I am a Paladin of Iomedae and one of my oaths is to protect the innocent from those that would do them harm. Your distrust of goblins is warranted by your experiences with them, however this goblin is my prisoner, foreign to these lands, and I am responsible for his actions and his life. If you have a legitimate grievance, I will hear it. Please, do not force me to take a side in this matter. I would be honor bound, and oath bound, to seek retribution for the shedding of innocent blood."
Then I would roll diplomacy or intimidate. Whichever the DM calls for.
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