Cleave and Mighty Cleaving (weapon)


Rules Questions


Mighty Cleaving wrote:
A mighty cleaving weapon allows a wielder using the Cleave feat to make one additional attack if the first attack hits, as long as the next foe is adjacent to the first and also within reach. This additional attack cannot be against the first foe.

First of all, does it require the Cleave Feat, because that's what it looks like to me.

So this allows the Cleave Feat to make up to 2 attacks if 2 enemies were to be in range.
The reading doesn't make it too clear who the first opponent is in this regard.

1, 2 and 3 are opponents within reach.
So hit 1, then cleave 2 and then mighty cleave 3. Or can it also be Hit 1,
cleave 2, mighty cleave 1?

Cleave is only allowed once per round, but what if it's triggered by an AoO?

So you cleave during first round, but then an enemy walks through your threat range and you hit it, can you then cleave again?


Trish Megistos wrote:
First of all, does it require the Cleave Feat, because that's what it looks like to me.

The item special ability directly states: "wielder using the Cleave feat", so yes, you must declare you cleave.

Unlike the old D&D versions, Cleave is no longer an on-kill trigger. Cleave is now a feat that specifically requires a Standard Action to be performed, so it must be declared through the Use Feat (cleave) action.

Trish Megistos wrote:
So this allows the Cleave Feat to make up to 2 attacks if 2 enemies were to be in range.

As i read it, might work with two opponents, based on how feat and ability are worded:

Cleave states:

Quote:
If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach

Mighty cleave states:

Quote:
...wielder using the Cleave feat to make one additional attack if the first attack hits, as long as the next foe is adjacent to the first and also within reach

"First" in both scenarios seems to refer to the foe you make the standard attack on. The "next" foe must be adjacent and within reach, but seems nothing bars you from using cleave and mighty cleave on the same "next foe" (unlike Greater Cleave for example, that directly points that you must switch opponents every attack).

Trish Megistos wrote:
Cleave is only allowed once per round, but what if it's triggered by an AoO?

An AoO only allows you to perform a single attack or some combat maneuvers. You're not granted a standard action or Use Feat action, so cannot trigger cleave.


Right, I tend to forget that. Thanks for clearing it up for me.


So if you have Greater Cleave and Mighty Cleaving how would that work?

One attack on the 1st target
Two attacks on the 2nd target
One attack on the 3rd target
One attack on the 4th target

or

One attack on the 1st target
Two attacks on the 2nd target
Two attacks on the 3rd target
Two attacks on the 4th target

?


Or would it be:

One attack on the 1st target
One attack on the 2nd target
One attack on the 3rd target
Two attacks on the 4th target


Mighty Cleaving doesn't work with Greater Cleave, as that is a separate feat rather than an expansion of the first feat (much like the Vital Strike feats are separate despite being basically improved versions of each other as they get higher)

So no, you can't even use Greater Cleave at all with this weapon special ability.


Ryze Kuja wrote:
So if you have Greater Cleave and Mighty Cleaving how would that work?

As Garbage-Tier Waifu stated, Mighty Cleaving directly states you have to use the Cleave feat. Greater Cleave, while having te Cleave feat requirement, is a "standalone" feat that is declared on it's own, so per pure RAW wording Mighty Cleave won't work with Greater Cleave.

Sure, It may feel weird that only works on Cleave and not on "XXXX cleave" feats, so this is essentially a RAW vs RAI scenario. In case your GM allows Mighty Cleave to work with any "XXXX cleave" feat, Mighty cleave only grants ONE attack: "...one additional attack...", not an attack for every cleave hit. The Mighty Cleave target must be adjacent to the "first" foe you hit and within reach.


If it's not supposed to be used with Greater Cleave, they should put a sentence in the Mighty Cleaving enchant that it "doesn't work with Great Cleave, Cleave only" or something. That's slightly ambiguous :/


Ryze Kuja wrote:
If it's not supposed to be used with Greater Cleave, they should put a sentence in the Mighty Cleaving enchant that it "doesn't work with Great Cleave, Cleave only" or something. That's slightly ambiguous :/

It's not ambiguous. Exact wording of Mighty Cleaving is:

Quote:
"...allows a wielder using the Cleave feat..."

Not only the description directly states "cleave feat", but also on the official SRD the Cleave feat is hyperlinked. So, RAW, it only works with the linked feat.

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