It is intentional. Skill Focus is just that, a skill you are particularly focused in giving a +3 insight bonus. Skill Synergy makes any skill that's not a class skill, or if it is it gives you a +2 insight bonus. You're not meant to both using skill focus and skill synergy on the same skill.
If a class ability grants you an insight bonus then you can always retrain the feat but you don't get it refunded by the class ability.
1. It's intentional. This is to prevent abuses such as a damaya lashunta envoy with Student (Diplomacy, Sense Motive), Skill Synergy (Diplomacy, Sense Motive), and Skill Expertise (Diplomacy) to start with (14 Wis, 18 Cha) +12+1d6 Diplomacy and +10+1d6 Sense Motive skill check bonuses at 1st level; and a +17+1d6 Diplomacy check at 3rd level with Skill Focus (Diplomacy). Other than the operative (which gets a compensating bonus of skill mastery on skills that have Skill Focus when Skill Focus is overlapped by the Operative's Edge bonus), the other class bonuses are for a few specific skills.
2. The feat is not refunded, but a mnemonic editor mk 1 (Core Rulebook, pg. 226-227) is pretty inexpensive at 500 cr.
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But note that the cost of future Mnemonic Editor uses mounts up quickly, so you need to choose when to use it carefully. Also, it is only useful for rewriting your last two levels, so once you reach level 3+, you can no longer do anything about your 1st level choices.
Not stacking class bonuses and feats doesn't make a lot of sense.
As far as I've seen the Operative effectively loses their "focused" skill bonuses around 3rd when their Edge surpasses the 2 free Skill Focus feats.
Making the feats both Feat bonuses would fix this whole mess.
Given some of the starship DCs can easily go over 50 at higher levels a +2 or +3 isn't much of a "break" in the rules.
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Not stacking class bonuses and feats doesn't make a lot of sense.
Sure it does. It's redundant training.
As far as I've seen the Operative effectively loses their "focused" skill bonuses around 3rd when their Edge surpasses the 2 free Skill Focus feats.
Ah, but Operatives get free Skill Mastery (ie: the ability to Take 10 under all circumstances) with such skills at 7th (when it actually equals the bonus).
Making the feats both Feat bonuses would fix this whole mess.
It's not a mess, it's very carefully and intentionally balanced.
Given some of the starship DCs can easily go over 50 at higher levels a +2 or +3 isn't much of a "break" in the rules.
It is elsewhere, and the DCs of Starship Combat are a problem, and one the creators have stated they're gonna fix.
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I'm sure they're designed this way to keep very focused builds from getting too good at particular things. Said envoy build can still be very good and above average but won't auto succeed on theoretically hard DCs. that seems fine to me, it can be really hard to design encounters for a party where one person has something like that but the others don't. Do you challenge the expert and make it impossible for the rest, or let the expert dance a rope over a spike pit blindfolded so the others can have a chance. And that's in a home game, much less society play. PF has all that stacking and the chance at high bonuses, they're taking a different path this time.
Personally the main thing that bugs me on skills right now is that the operative is a better engineer than the mechanic. That just feels wrong. :)
Don't forget that envoys and operatives both gain class features that basically change what the Skill Focus feat does. (Envoys get rerolls from it while operatives get the ability to take 10 while threatened with the skill.)
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I don't understand who thought "You know what feat is OP and needs to be nerfed? Skill Focus!"
I agree it clearly doesn't stack with other class insight bonuses, and someone went out of their way to make sure it didn't. But this is just bad design. At least Skill Synergy gives you two more Class Skills.
No, it's very good design if you specifically want to limit maximum possible skill ratings so as to make the challenge intended by particular DCs consistent.
It's also very good for allowing non-skill Classes to potentially participate if they grab Skill Focus, rather than relegate them to being 6 points behind an Operative no matter what.
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I don't understand who thought "You know what feat is OP and needs to be nerfed? Skill Focus!"
I agree it clearly doesn't stack with other class insight bonuses, and someone went out of their way to make sure it didn't. But this is just bad design. At least Skill Synergy gives you two more Class Skills.
Skill focus continue to be worth for every skill you want to be relevant in and doesn't have a class insight bonus; Soldiers who want to be stealthier, thechnomancers who want to be better at engineering, star shamans who want to be the face, etc...
What it doesn't works for is to have a character with an uberspecializated skill who isn't challenged when the rest of the team is going to fail no matter what they roll. But that's not bad desing, at least for me.
I don't understand who thought "You know what feat is OP and needs to be nerfed? Skill Focus!"
I agree it clearly doesn't stack with other class insight bonuses, and someone went out of their way to make sure it didn't. But this is just bad design. At least Skill Synergy gives you two more Class Skills.
Skill focus continue to be worth for every skill you want to be relevant in and doesn't have a class insight bonus; Soldiers who want to be stealthier, thechnomancers who want to be better at engineering, star shamans who want to be the face, etc...
What it doesn't works for is to have a character with an uberspecializated skill who isn't challenged when the rest of the team is going to fail no matter what they roll. But that's not bad desing, at least for me.
Yeah. Those classes are already focused on the skills(or all the skills for operative...). Getting more focused can only do so much(which they do spell out in the case of operative and envoy... personally i though it would have been nice to give something neat to the other classes).
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I don't mind the not stacking, in fact I think it's a good idea. My biggest complaint is that the mechanic doesn't get anything that makes having a skill focus a good idea long term like the envoy and operative do.
I've been thinking about circumstance bonuses and remembered seeing something about them stacking, so re-read p. 266 of the Starfinder Core Rulebook.
Circumstance bonuses arise from specific conditional factors affecting the task at hand. Circumstance bonuses stack with other circumstance bonuses unless they arise from essentially the same source, in which case they do not stack.
Emphasis is mine. It seems clear from that section that circumstance bonuses from a class feature and circumstance bonuses from a feat should stack. What's less clear is whether circumstance bonuses from different feats should stack, since the source for each is "feat." I think I'd rule that Skill Focus and Skill Synergy circumstance bonuses would not stack with one another.
I don't know if anyone else has already come to this conclusion, and a search of the forums led me back to this thread, which seems the most relevant.
What do you folks think?
Most class features, Skill Focus, and Skill Synergy grant Insight bonuses, not Circumstance bonuses.
I've been thinking about circumstance bonuses and remembered seeing something about them stacking, so re-read p. 266 of the Starfinder Core Rulebook.
Circumstance bonuses arise from specific conditional factors affecting the task at hand. Circumstance bonuses stack with other circumstance bonuses unless they arise from essentially the same source, in which case they do not stack.Emphasis is mine. It seems clear from that section that circumstance bonuses from a class feature and circumstance bonuses from a feat should stack. What's less clear is whether circumstance bonuses from different feats should stack, since the source for each is "feat." I think I'd rule that Skill Focus and Skill Synergy circumstance bonuses would not stack with one another.
I don't know if anyone else has already come to this conclusion, and a search of the forums led me back to this thread, which seems the most relevant.
What do you folks think?
We're not talking about circumstance bonuses, though. The class skill features and those skill-boosting feats are all Insight bonuses.
Most class features, Skill Focus, and Skill Synergy grant Insight bonuses, not Circumstance bonuses.
We're not talking about circumstance bonuses, though. The class skill features and those skill-boosting feats are all Insight bonuses.
Oh, yeah. Never mind. Bah. : )