I'm building a Halcyon druid (druid that can grab wizard spells) focusing on necromancy and debuff-"blasting" (i.e. decent to mediocre damage with good to decent rider effect) and I'm contemplating what spell to pick for Spell Perfection.
Some of the spells he'll be taking are: boneshaker at 6th, boneshatter at 10th, and banshee blast at 14th. There's also horrid wilting at 18th (kind of a mass version of blight, which druids already get, so a logical and thematic choice) and wail of the banshee at 20th (the mother of all SoD spells and in-theme with banshee blast).
So far, I was considering banshee blast for Spell Perfection and making it persistent for free (and further increasing the DC by 2, since I was taking Greater Spell Focus anyway). But then my eyes were drawn towards the druid-exclusive explosion of rot, also a nice debuff-blast.
Banshee Blast
Explosion of Rot
Now, the two elephants in the room are obviously the double save and "B*tch, I'm immune to that sh*t." on banshee blast. The lower damage is less of a concern to me, since the purpose of this druid is to soften enemies up for others, rather than outright kills. On the other hand, banshee blast has a higher DC (10% more likely to deal full damage, to be precise) and affects more squares and thus potentially more creatures.
Metamagic on the build: Most likely Extend Spell, probably Persistent Spell (mostly for BB), definitely no Intensified Spell (not really worth it on this build), and possibly no Quicken Spell either (blasphemous for a full caster, I know; though EoR probably makes it worth it when perfected). Maybe Thanatopic Spell or Threnodic Spell, depending on the final spell selection, since they would be in-theme. Or Contingent Spell for emergency healing, but I could also just grab contingency from the wizard.
As such, I could ramp up the damage and stagger potential of EoR or quicken it, which is really, really tempting, but then I'd also be tempted to also intensify it for even more damage and exhausting my 9 levels worth of effective spell levels.
Alternately, I could make BB more effective at what it does. Sadly, I won't be able to do much to undead with the spell, unless I use Thanatopic or Threnodic Spell and carry a rod of whichever I lack. Annoying, but also not forbiddingly impractical.
How does that work anyways? It seems death and sonic are tied to the damage part, while fear and mind-affecting are tied to the panic part. Seems kind of odd that even the frailest paladin wouldn't take damage from this spell, when it is quite clearly caused by an outside force rather than imagination. Or should they take damage, but be automatically immune to the rider effect?
Honestly, the longer I look at both spells, the more I'm inclined to take explosion of rot simply to avoid opening a can of banshee worms. But then there would be less reason to actually learn banshee blast and then wail of the banshee would kind of come out of left field.
Basically, I hope people can convince me that banshee blast would be worth perfecting (and maybe suggest another 1-level metamagic to prepare it with) or, failing that, push me just a little bit further towards a “generic” quickened spell perfection using explosion of rot. Or maybe another spell entirely. I'm open to suggestions. :)
TL;DR: Between explosion of rot and banshee blast, which would be better/more effective perfected? Key points: 1) 1d4 rounds staggered or 1 round/CL panicked? 2) 10 ft burst or 30 ft cone? 3) close range or directly in front of me? 4) no immunities or some situationally annoying immunities? 5) 4th-level spell (possibly with some other metamagic and thus a 6th level slot either way) or 6th-level spell (likely without metamagic)?
Between those 2 spells definitely explosion of rot. Better targeting, only 1 save, no annoying immunities, only a slightly worse debuff, better range, and 2 levels lower all without taking up a spell taken from wizard list
As for another spell may I suggest enervation. This deadly spell may only be single target however it can kill most of the bestiary within 2 turns. Even after the first round they are stuck with a massive -10 to everything making most any target easy pickings for your party. Rather than targeting a save this spell hits touch AC, possibly the easiest defense to overcome
death, fear, mind-affecting, sonic VS untyped...that's a lot of things to run across immunities/resistances, some of which are pretty common
I'd pass on all those descriptors
Yeah, I kind of got that with those the descriptors it wouldn't be good, but was just hoping it may still be decent if built towards.
Though it is untyped damage rather than sonic, so really you are either immune or not. Nothing between. That's at least something I guess...
As I said, I just needed a little push, since banshee blast was basically hanging on a thin "it's cool and thematically improves to wail of the banshee"-thread at the point I posted this. Also, I did consider enervation, but it would need to be thanatopic to affect undead, whereas explosion of rot works from the start.
So, any good metamagic to throw onto EoR or enervation?
Update: I've pretty much finalized spell selection by throwing in some timey wimey stuff as well:
4th) Prestidigitation, Ray of Enfeeblement
6th) Boneshaker, False Life
8th) Haste, Heroism
10th) Break Enchantment, Overland Flight
12th) Boneshatter, Enervation
14th) Contingency, Eyebite
16th) Plane Shift, Retrocognition
18th) Horrid Wilting, Mind Blank
20th) Time Stop, Wail of the Banshee
Together with other spells native to the druid like Ancestral Memory, Explosion of Rot, Threefold Aspect, Dust Form, Temporal Regression (not sure if it's worth a 9th level slot), and other thematically appropriate ones I'm sure I've missed, they mesh well into a theme that's basically Shyka's portfolio, so I might even have found a patron deity/Eldest, though it'll take some time warming up to the idea. Any good sources on them?
Back on topic: since Eyebite eats up the swift action each round after the first, quickened enervation is out the window (as is spontaneously thanatopic-ing it with spell perfection when needed), so I might drop Spell Perfection alltogether unless someone suggests an application that's just too good to pass up. Either way is fine, since it means I'll have more slots to spend on other feats.
Also, am I interpreting Dust Form right in that I can make full-attacks against touch AC, since I'm incorporeal? And I won't get natural armor and Cha as deflection will be redundant with a RoP, but instead I'll take half damage from most things and I could get total concealment by moving into an object. Does my armor/shield bonus still apply or do they have to be ghost touch (was probably going to get them anyway, just making sure)?
Finally, any good +1 or +2 abilities to add to a +5 ghost touch sharding sickle at higher levels?
Dastis wrote: Between those 2 spells definitely explosion of rot. Better targeting, only 1 save, no annoying immunities, only a slightly worse debuff, better range, and 2 levels lower all without taking up a spell taken from wizard list Agreed.
A necromancer spell if you can pick it up that I REALLY like to use and abuse is Magic Jar. Pair Magic Jar with Elemental Body- Earth and go below the earth to protect your body when you cast it.
I think Eye Bite is just a bad spell personally and Might be a swift after the standard you cast it but so many better standard action spells to use that Eye Bite never makes the cut on the list and never made the impact I wanted when I did try it a few times in the actual play.
Eyebite isn't the best spell, I agree with you there.
But there's not too many necromancy spells I want at that level (or others in general) and considering I can already exhaust/fatigue with boneshatter, stagger with explosion of rot, and debuff basically everything with enervation, I could do worse than adding a "free" sickened attempt every round to the list.
And I never even knew/thought about that Magic Jar-Elemental Body combo. Nice. :)
Only problem is I personally am not a huge fan of the spell, just seems a little too wonky (I think the possession spell even asks you to replace all instances of magic jar with it because it just is worded clearer and such).
VarisianViscount wrote: Eyebite isn't the best spell, I agree with you there.
But there's not too many necromancy spells I want at that level (or others in general) and considering I can already exhaust/fatigue with boneshatter, stagger with explosion of rot, and debuff basically everything with enervation, I could do worse than adding a "free" sickened attempt every round to the list.
And I never even knew/thought about that Magic Jar-Elemental Body combo. Nice. :)
Only problem is I personally am not a huge fan of the spell, just seems a little too wonky (I think the possession spell even asks you to replace all instances of magic jar with it because it just is worded clearer and such).
I usually use Magic Jar and Animate dead as a combo together.
Take control of the first room and have them kill each other wondering why did this guy start attacking allies. After they are all dead I return to my body and enter the room. I then cast Animate Dead and push them into the next areas. After more bodies pile up and I lose some of mine I cast animate dead again and keep pushing. My team mates take considerably less damage due to the undead meatshields leading the charge. Some critters actually get stronger being undead. It is a great way to clear a dungeon and the dead also make for finding traps easier in a hilarious fashion.
I've always thought Explosion of rot had potential as a blasting spell for a druid.
Banshee blast on the other hand, does not.
If you get to go Mythic, Mythic finger of Death is pretty good at killing things.
But really druids aren't the best at killing things magically, not quickly anyway, more tying them in so many knots they give up.
Summon nature ally with some nice templates also kills things, Celestial Dire Tigers are a nice start. As for necromancy spells in general, you're in good hands with Louise.
Louise Bishop wrote: VarisianViscount wrote: Eyebite isn't the best spell, I agree with you there.
But there's not too many necromancy spells I want at that level (or others in general) and considering I can already exhaust/fatigue with boneshatter, stagger with explosion of rot, and debuff basically everything with enervation, I could do worse than adding a "free" sickened attempt every round to the list.
And I never even knew/thought about that Magic Jar-Elemental Body combo. Nice. :)
Only problem is I personally am not a huge fan of the spell, just seems a little too wonky (I think the possession spell even asks you to replace all instances of magic jar with it because it just is worded clearer and such).
I usually use Magic Jar and Animate dead as a combo together.
Take control of the first room and have them kill each other wondering why did this guy start attacking allies. After they are all dead I return to my body and enter the room. I then cast Animate Dead and push them into the next areas. After more bodies pile up and I lose some of mine I cast animate dead again and keep pushing. My team mates take considerably less damage due to the undead meatshields leading the charge. Some critters actually get stronger being undead. It is a great way to clear a dungeon and the dead also make for finding traps easier in a hilarious fashion. Well that's what I get for never considering creating undead as a player: I dont think up such nice strategies. Though druids have little undead support und Halcyon druids are presumably NG (what with associating with the Magaambya and spontaneouly casting Good domain spells), so no evil spells for this guy.
Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote: I've always thought Explosion of rot had potential as a blasting spell for a druid.
Banshee blast on the other hand, does not.
If you get to go Mythic, Mythic finger of Death is pretty good at killing things.
But really druids aren't the best at killing things magically, not quickly anyway, more tying them in so many knots they give up.
Summon nature ally with some nice templates also kills things, Celestial Dire Tigers are a nice start. As for necromancy spells in general, you're in good hands with Louise.
The realization that explosion of rot is just simply better is what started all this. ;) And yeah, druids aren't good at magic-ing things into oblivion, so I decided on a debuffer with damage thrown in as a bonus.
I guess one way to start combat would be a quickened explosion of rot or enervation coupled with a standard eyebite. Then target enemies as necessary and appropriate the following rounds and let the others in the party do the main damage. That way everyone gets to contribute something instead of feeling like a wizard's clean up team. :)
Thats a very high level strategy and also Eyebite is lackluster.
I like to plan ahead. ;)
For the earlier levels, I'm looking towards Ray of Enfeeblement and buffs for the party. Since the archetype gets all knowledges and diplmoacy as class skills, as well as 1/2 druid level to Know (local) and Diplomacy, pulling his weight in the early levels will be done just as much in out of combat situations as in in combat situations, if not more.
As for Eyebite: What DO you suggest I pick instead of Eyebite?
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