Arcane Bond items and Free Hand for casting


Rules Questions


If a wizard's arcane bond item is a staff, wand, or weapon, they have to hold it in one hand to cast. Casters also need a free hand to cast spells with somatic components.

Is it possible for these to be the same hand?

If not, is there a feat or something (other than Still Spell) that would allow a wizard to cast while holding their arcane bond item in one hand and something else in the other hand?

Follow-up question: What if the other item is a shield? Can they put their wand/weapon/staff in the shield hand and cast a spell?

Thanks in advance.


No, a hand holding an object (other than the material components needed for the spell in question) isn't free.


remember you just need one free hand to cast a spell with somatic component, and using a two-hand weapon you are still considered to have at least one free hand to cast spell


Side Note: Wizards can't use the hand holding their Bonded Item for Somatic Components, but Arcane Duelist Bards can.


Ok, any info on the shields?

Near as I can figure, it could be pulled off with a light shield but not a heavy. Buckler wouldn't even need to switch hands.


there's a feat named shielded mage, the shield do not prevent you from completing somatic spell components with the hand wielding the shield and you reduce the arcane spell failure of any shield you use by 15% min of 0%

the prerequisite is shield focus, base attack bonus +3 or 1 fighter level


John Murdock wrote:

there's a feat named shielded mage, the shield do not prevent you from completing somatic spell components with the hand wielding the shield and you reduce the arcane spell failure of any shield you use by 15% min of 0%

the prerequisite is shield focus, base attack bonus +3 or 1 fighter level

Nice.

The implication is that without such a feat or ability, you cannot use your shield hand to provide somatic components to cast spells.

I'm still not certain about things like a gauntlet, cestus, or buckler, so I just go ahead and allow it.


blahpers wrote:
John Murdock wrote:

there's a feat named shielded mage, the shield do not prevent you from completing somatic spell components with the hand wielding the shield and you reduce the arcane spell failure of any shield you use by 15% min of 0%

the prerequisite is shield focus, base attack bonus +3 or 1 fighter level

Nice.

The implication is that without such a feat or ability, you cannot use your shield hand to provide somatic components to cast spells.

I'm still not certain about things like a gauntlet, cestus, or buckler, so I just go ahead and allow it.

yep and what is aberrant whit this feat is you can use your hand holding a tower shield to cast, i preferred the feat in 3.5 that you were still able to cast your spell with somatic component with a weapon instead which seems more logical than a shield, and the prerequisite was i think 5 or 6 ranks in spellcraft


John Murdock wrote:
i preferred the feat in 3.5 that you were still able to cast your spell with somatic component with a weapon instead which seems more logical than a shield, and the prerequisite was i think 5 or 6 ranks in spellcraft

That sounds like just the thing for the character I'm trying to build, but alas it's 3.5 not Pathfinder.

John Murdock wrote:


there's a feat named shielded mage, the shield do not prevent you from completing somatic spell components with the hand wielding the shield and you reduce the arcane spell failure of any shield you use by 15% min of 0%

the prerequisite is shield focus, base attack bonus +3 or 1 fighter level

This is also a near-perfect solution. Thanks!


blahpers wrote:
John Murdock wrote:

there's a feat named shielded mage, the shield do not prevent you from completing somatic spell components with the hand wielding the shield and you reduce the arcane spell failure of any shield you use by 15% min of 0%

the prerequisite is shield focus, base attack bonus +3 or 1 fighter level

Nice.

Shielded Mage is really nice. It is really good for "Sword and Board" Eldritch Knight builds (especially if you like to use the Spell Critical ability).

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blahpers wrote:
The implication is that without such a feat or ability, you cannot use your shield hand to provide somatic components to cast spells.

I think this is correct for shields other than bucklers. Most shields occupy your hand because their descriptions say that you are required to grip them as well as strap them on. Bucklers have a specific exception since they are attached solely by the strap.

UE wrote:

Buckler

...
You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn.

This interpretation is backed up by the Slashing Grace FAQ.

FAQ wrote:
Slashing Grace does not allow most shields, but bucklers work because they don’t occupy the hand.

Additionally the Skirnir Magus has a Class Ability to allow them to use the hand holding their Bonded Shield for Somatic Components.

UC wrote:

Shielded Spell Combat (Su): At 8th level, a skirnir gains the spell combat ability, but only when wielding his bonded shield. A skirnir may use his shield hand to perform somatic components for magus spells, forfeiting the shield's bonus to AC until the beginning of his next turn; if the bonded shield is a buckler, he retains its bonus to AC. At 14th level, he gains the benefits of improved spell combat.

At 19th level, he retains his shield's bonus to AC when using any type of shield with spell combat. This ability replaces improved spell combat, greater spell combat, and greater spell access.

The implication is that, bucklers aside, the shield hand can't normally be used for Somatic Components.

From all of these citations I conclude:

(1) A buckler doesn't prevent you from using that arm for Somatic Components, but you lose your Shield Bonus unless you have specific Class Abilities or Feats that let you keep it.

(2) Other shields do prevent you from using that arm for Somatic Components unless you have specific Class Abilities or Feats that allow this. When using the arm for Somatic Components you would lose your Shield Bonus unless you also have specific Class Abilities or Feats that let you keep it.

So Shielded Mage is great because it not only lets you use your shield arm for Somatic Components for any type of shield, but because it also lets you retain your Shield Bonus while doing so. (And the reduced ASF is nice, too.)

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blahpers wrote:
I'm still not certain about things like a gauntlet, cestus, or buckler, so I just go ahead and allow it.

I've covered the rules for Bucklers. Gauntlets don't prevent you from making Somatic gestures. We are told that gauntlets are part of many types of armor, yet there aren't any rules about those types of armor preventing the use of Somatic Components (although their ASF may make casting harder).

We also have the description of the Locked Gauntlet.

UE wrote:

Locked Gauntlet

...
While the gauntlet is locked, you can't use the hand wearing it for casting spells or employing skills. (You can still cast spells with somatic components, provided that your other hand is free.)
...

The clear implication is that you can use the hand for Somatic Components if you are wearing an unlocked gauntlet.

I have no idea how the Cestus works with Somatic Components.


John Murdock wrote:
yep and what is aberrant whit this feat is you can use your hand holding a tower shield to cast, i preferred the feat in 3.5 that you were still able to cast your spell with somatic component with a weapon instead which seems more logical than a shield, and the prerequisite was i think 5 or 6 ranks in spellcraft

Well, a 35% spell failure chance is still a decent penalty while using tower shields.

Shielded Mage is mainly meant for heavy shields tops, to nullify their arcane casting penalty.


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Good catches on all of that. Thanks, Gisher. (Appropriate name, BTW.)


blahpers wrote:
Good catches on all of that. Thanks, Gisher. (Appropriate name, BTW.)

You are very welcome. Sorry I couldn't find anything about the Cestus. (I do like Gishy characters the best. As my avatar shows, my favorite is currently the Occultist.)


Yorien wrote:
John Murdock wrote:
yep and what is aberrant whit this feat is you can use your hand holding a tower shield to cast, i preferred the feat in 3.5 that you were still able to cast your spell with somatic component with a weapon instead which seems more logical than a shield, and the prerequisite was i think 5 or 6 ranks in spellcraft

Well, a 35% spell failure chance is still a decent penalty while using tower shields.

Shielded Mage is mainly meant for heavy shields tops, to nullify their arcane casting penalty.

I really like the Folding special ability for a shield-focused character. An Arcane Caster can turn their shield into Tower Shield form when they really need that +4 bonus or total cover, and turn it back into a smaller form when they want to use Shielded Mage to cast spells.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gisher wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Good catches on all of that. Thanks, Gisher. (Appropriate name, BTW.)
You are very welcome. Sorry I couldn't find anything about the Cestus. (I do like Gishy characters the best. As my avatar shows, my favorite is currently the Occultist.)

If a gauntlet is allowed, that's good enough for me to allow cestus for my games without fear of unduly upsetting expectations.

Scarab Sages

lowericon wrote:

If a wizard's arcane bond item is a staff, wand, or weapon, they have to hold it in one hand to cast. Casters also need a free hand to cast spells with somatic components.

Is it possible for these to be the same hand?

If not, is there a feat or something (other than Still Spell) that would allow a wizard to cast while holding their arcane bond item in one hand and something else in the other hand?

Follow-up question: What if the other item is a shield? Can they put their wand/weapon/staff in the shield hand and cast a spell?

Thanks in advance.

Yes and no. They can "hold" the weapon in a single hand, and cast with the other for somatic components. They can't (normally) use the bonded object to cast somatic components. Some shields are able to cast with the hand, while others are not (read the shield description in the CRB). Some shields also allow you to hold other objects.

Certain weapons don't occupy the hands at all, like the Gauntlet or the Blade Boot, so can be used for Somatic Components without alteration.

There are a few magic weapons that can be bonded objects and are able to use somatic components via that weapon, despite the weapon not normally allowing somatic components. The Wizard Hook, for example.


Assuming you are using a light shield, you can hold an item in the shield hand, although you can't wield a weapon. However, arcane bond just requires a bonded item, even if it is a weapon, to be held during the casting.

Shifting grips, or transferring an item from one hand to another is a free action.

So a sword and board wizard, with an arcane bonded sword, could as a free action move his sword to his shield hand, cast a spell, and then move the sword back to his empty hand. As long as he didn't need to cast any immediate action spells with a somatic component (I don't even know if there are any) he should be pretty good to go.

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