scouting, message spell, and the surprise round

[Matt L Hill]

Say the PC sneaky scout has the spell "message" active. The PC has detected an enemy and whispers the presence and location of the enemy to other PC's via the spell. The enemy gets a perception check of DC 25 to notice the whispering, succeeds on the check, and becomes aware of the scout. If the enemy wants to attack the scout, regular combat initiative begins, since they are both aware of each other.

But would the rest of the PC's party (on the receiving end of the whispered message) get a surprise round, since they are aware of the enemy combatant, but the enemy combatant is not aware of them?

What if the scout had reported the enemy's presence and location to the rest of the party long before, and was only detected by the enemy while trying to sneak away?

[tchrman35]

Up to the GM. All the way.

That said, what I would do:
1) Don't forget distance and other modifiers to that perception DC.

2) Remember that in this case the ROGUE is whispering, not the spell, so the DC is 15 (not 25).

3) The rest of the PC's party is NOT aware that the guy heard him. They did not spring an ambush or intend to attack. No surprise round.

Those are my interpretations of the situation presented. In all cases, if you're a GM make the fairest ruling you can, and if you're a PC don't argue unless it really matters.

[John Murdock]

tchrman35 wrote:

2) Remember that in this case the ROGUE is whispering, not the spell, so the DC is 15 (not 25).

the spell say ''Those nearby can hear these messages with a DC 25 Perception check.'' so the DC is not 15 but 25 as per the spell say

[Stephen Ede]

Message also has the frequently forgotten proviso that it allows the caster to speak to any of the targets and they can respond, but the targets can't initiate a message.

People endlessly treat it as a cell phone.

So unless the Scout cast Message then he can't send a message unless the caster pings him by asking a question or telling him something.
Now that could mean every round the caster goes "Are you there yet", but I think that becomes justifiable homicide on the part of the Scout when he sneak attacks the Caster to death.
Maybe a "call in" every minute might pass muster as not been a reason to kill the caster, but then you have a minute between the Scout been heard and getting pinged again, at which point most fights will be long over and a new initiative required.

[tchrman35]

Stephen Ede wrote:

Message also has the frequently forgotten proviso that it allows the caster to speak to any of the targets and they can respond, but the targets can't initiate a message.

People endlessly treat it as a cell phone.

So unless the Scout cast Message then he can't send a message unless the caster pings him by asking a question or telling him something.
Now that could mean every round the caster goes "Are you there yet", but I think that becomes justifiable homicide on the part of the Scout when he sneak attacks the Caster to death.
Maybe a "call in" every minute might pass muster as not been a reason to kill the caster, but then you have a minute between the Scout been heard and getting pinged again, at which point most fights will be long over and a new initiative required.

Eh, I disagree. This isn't sending. It's message. The duration is very long. It's an open comm link. No need to nerf it. There is no duration given on how long the recipient is able to reply. There's no amount of words.

It's just an open comm.

[Valandil Ancalime]

Message

IMO, there is no surprise round unless the scout is giving the "go" command and the rest of the group is ready to spring an ambush on said "go". If the scout is just reporting in, then the party on the other end of the line is not ready with an ambush, thus no surprise round. If there are multiple enemies and some heard and some didn't, then I would give a surprise round to the scout and whoever heard him.

[Stephen Ede]

tchrman35 wrote:

Stephen Ede wrote:

Message also has the frequently forgotten proviso that it allows the caster to speak to any of the targets and they can respond, but the targets can't initiate a message.

People endlessly treat it as a cell phone.

So unless the Scout cast Message then he can't send a message unless the caster pings him by asking a question or telling him something.
Now that could mean every round the caster goes "Are you there yet", but I think that becomes justifiable homicide on the part of the Scout when he sneak attacks the Caster to death.
Maybe a "call in" every minute might pass muster as not been a reason to kill the caster, but then you have a minute between the Scout been heard and getting pinged again, at which point most fights will be long over and a new initiative required.

Eh, I disagree. This isn't sending. It's message. The duration is very long. It's an open comm link. No need to nerf it. There is no duration given on how long the recipient is able to reply. There's no amount of words.

It's just an open comm.

No it's not. It's quite clear. Caster sends a message and the receiver can reply. It last's a long time and during that time you can keep sending messages, and each time the recipient can reply.

If it was open com it would say "the Caster and targets can talk to each other". There are spells that do that. Message is not that spell.

Keep in mind it is only a cantrip. As a general rule anytime you think a cantrip is really great you've probably got something wrong.

Quote:

You can whisper messages and receive whispered replies. Those nearby can hear these messages with a DC 25 Perception check. You point your finger at each creature you want to receive the message. When you whisper, the whispered message is audible to all targeted creatures within range. Magical silence, 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal (or a thin sheet of lead), or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks the spell. The message does not have to travel in a straight line. It can circumvent a barrier if there is an open path between you and the subject, and the path’s entire length lies within the spell’s range. The creatures that receive the message can whisper a reply that you hear. The spell transmits sound, not meaning; it doesn’t transcend language barriers. To speak a message, you must mouth the words and whisper.