|
So, going off of a previous thread I posted, I was looking around for a way to use arcanist style casting for a rogue mage kinda character.
The strategy I want to go for is a battlefield control/buffer mage who can teleport in to execute key targets when they're vulnerable. Ex: party is busy holding off horde of skelies, and necro dude is in the background, summoning more.
Arcane Trickster wouldn't work so well with the arcanist, so I found the idea of going one level rogue for trapfinding, and then the rest arcanist. Still, I'd like to add more damage to the execution spells, and saw blade adept.
What do you guys think? Would it be best to get a spell storing rapier, and go exploiter wizard instead?
Starting level is 8, btw.
At 8th level, the rogue 1/arcanist 7 will only have a BAB of +3, which is worse even than a straight arcanist. Not a great choice for getting separated from the party in combat (especially without the ability to wear armor).
For a "arcanist-style... rogue mage kinda character" there are much better options: archaeologist bard, psychic detective investigator, magus with VMC rogue, vexing daredevil mesmerist with VMC rogue, or even battle host occultist (VMC rogue) with the Conjuration and Transmutation implement schools and the Side Step focus power.
If you're absolutely set on arcanist, go inspired blade swashbuckler 1 (pick up Fencing Grace at 1st level)/blade adept arcanist 6 (Spellstrike)/eldritch knight 1 with VMC rogue. With the Magical Knack trait, CL will be 8 (even though spells will be as arcanist 6). At 9th level, continue in eldritch knight and take Extra Arcanist Exploit (Eldritch Blade). If you want better Sneak Attack, use the 5th level feat for Accomplished Sneak Attacker.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Inspired blade swashbuckler 1/blade adept arcanist 6/eldritch knight with VMC rogue is probably your best choice for full arcane casting (delayed slightly, but still gain 9th-level spells at 20th level as a swashbuckler 1/arcanist 6/eldritch knight 10/arcanist +3) and Sneak Attack/trapfinding that can act as a flanker/skirmisher (BAB/hp).
there's the eldritch scoundrel (i think) that is a 6th level casting rogue archetype.
|
|
This is what I have so far, before gold and equipment. I'm thinking elf might be a better choice, but I don't like the -2 to Constitution. Also, the 2 increases went to intelligence. (Abilities were rolled)
Str 12
Dex 17
Con 15
Int 20
Wis 11
Cha 13
Health: 12 + 6d6 + 1d10 + 14
BAB: +4
Fort: +2
Ref: +4
Will: +5
Favored Class: Arcanist
FCB: +6 health
Feats
Fencing Grace
Weapon Finesse (Rapier)
Weapon Focus (Rapier)
Extra Arcanist Exploit
Improved Initiative
Traits
Magical Knack
Silent Hunter
Class Features
Trapfinding
Sneak Attack +1d6
Deeds
- Derring-Do
- Dodging Panache
- Opportune Parry and Riposte
Inspired Panache (6)
Inspired Finesse
Arcane Resevoir (Max: 9) (+6 per day)
Arcane Exploit
- Spell Strike
- Eldritch Blade
Cantrips
Consume Spells
Blade Bond (Rapier)
Sentient Sword
Diverse Training
Skills
Acrobatics 1
Climb 1
Diplomacy 8
Disable Device 8
Escape Artist 1
Knowledge
- Arcana 2
- Planes 1
- Religion 1
Linguistics 4
Perception 8
Sense Motive 8
Spellcraft 7
Stealth 8
Swim 1
Spells Per Day
1 - 6
2 - 5
3 - 3
Spells Known Per Day
0 - 7
1 - 4
2 - 2
3 - 1
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I’ll show you what “too much free time” looks like. ;)
I'm going to toss out a few oddball options that haven't come up yet. None of them use VMC Rogue.
------------------------------
------------------------------
(1) Inspired Blade Swashbuckler 1/Blade Adept Arcanist 6/Eldritch Knight 1 (BAB +5)
Take the Trap Finder Trait instead of using VMC Rogue. It makes Disable Device a Class Skill, gives you a +1 Trait Bonus, and lets you disable magic traps. You won’t get the level-based bonuses the way you would with VMC, but other than the +1 Perception Bonus it is numerically equivalent to the single level in Rogue that you originally proposed. You can use the VMC feats that you free up to take Favored Prestige Class and Prestigious Spellcaster to mitigate the downsides of Eldritch Knight.
Endgame: Swashbuckler 1/Arcanist 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Arcanist 3
BAB +15
Caster Level: 20 (with Magical Knack) 19 (with only Prestigious Spellcaster)
Casting Progression: 19 (with Prestigious Spellcaster)
Level-based Bonus for Trapfinding: +0
------------------------------
------------------------------
(2) Trapper Ranger 1/Blade Adept Arcanist 6/Eldritch Knight 1 (BAB +5)
I do love the Inspired Blade Swashbuckler, but if your GM won't let you take the Trap Finder Trait then you might consider taking a level in Trapper Ranger instead. It would get you the same Trapfinding abilities as a level in Rogue while improving your BAB and meeting the Martial Weapon Proficiency requirement for Eldritch Knight. Again, you can use the feat slots opened up by discarding VMC for Favored Prestige Class and Prestigious Spellcaster.
Endgame: Ranger 1/Arcanist 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Arcanist 3
BAB +15
Caster Level: 20 (with Magical Knack) 19 (with only Prestigious Spellcaster)
Casting Progression: 19 (with Prestigious Spellcaster)
Level-based Bonus for Trapfinding: +1
------------------------------
------------------------------
(3) Patient Ambusher Hunter 1/Blade Adept Arcanist 6/Eldritch Knight 1 (BAB +4)
This option is identical to (2) except you take a level in Patient Ambusher Hunter rather than a level in Trapper Ranger. You would lose the +1 BAB, but Hunters seem have some fun first abilities like Animal Focus and an Animal Companion. I’m really not that familiar with Hunters or the rules for Animal Companions, but I think there are feats to boost your Animal Companion above what the single level of Hunter would provide. Maybe some more knowledgeable people will clarify whether this is a good option.
Endgame: Hunter 1/Arcanist 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Arcanist 3
BAB +14
Caster Level: 20 (with Magical Knack) 19 (with only Prestigious Spellcaster)
Casting Progression: 19 (with Prestigious Spellcaster)
Level-based Bonus for Trapfinding: +1
------------------------------
------------------------------
(4) Options involving the Seeker Sorcerer
This last set of options uses a Sorcerer archetype that I had never encountered before today. The Seeker Sorcerer archetype grants all the elements of Rogue Trapfinding as part of their Tinkering Class Ability. The bonuses do scale as you take more Sorcerer levels. I know that you are focused on Blade Adept Arcanist, but these might be options worth considering.
----------
(4a) Seeker Sorcerer 8 (BAB +4)
Ok, you have 1/2 BAB but you are a full caster with no lost levels in casting progression and you have Trapfinding that is as good as an 8th level Rogue. Your Bloodline Abilities will be at full progression except that Seeker replaces both your 3rd and 15th level Bloodline Abilities. There are lots of interesting Bloodlines to consider. Shadow Bloodline fits with a sneaky Rogue them, Psychic Bloodline compensates for your loss of Eschew Components, and there are lots of other options.
Endgame: Seeker Sorcerer 20
BAB +10
Caster Level: 20
Casting Progression: 20
Level-based Bonus for Trapfinding: +10
Bloodline Ability Progression: 20 (except no 3rd or 15th level abilities)
----------
(4b) Inspired Blade Swashbuckler 1/Seeker Sorcerer 6/Eldritch Knight 1 (BAB +5)
This is the same as option (1) except based on Sorcerer instead of Arcanist. Note that Inspired Blade gets Panache from both Int and Cha so you won’t lose any by switching to Cha. You give up a level of casting progression for the great benefits of Inspired Blade. Your Trapfinding abilities won’t be as good as (4a) but they will be better than all of the other previous options that I laid out. Favored Prestige Class and Prestigious Spellcaster will, again, help out with the levels of Eldritch Knight, but your Bloodline Abilities are only at level 6.
Endgame: Swashbuckler 1/Sorcerer 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Sorcerer 3
BAB +15
Caster Level: 20 (with Magical Knack) 19 (with only Prestigious Spellcaster)
Casting Progression: 19 (with Prestigious Spellcaster)
Level-based Bonus for Trapfinding: +4
Bloodline Ability Progression: 9 (except no 3rd or 15th level abilities)
----------
(4c) Seeker Sorcerer 5/Dragon Disciple 3 or Seeker Sorcerer 6/Dragon Disciple 2 (both BAB +4)
You’ll have to take the Draconic Bloodline for this to work. Levels in DD won’t pump up your BAB as much as EK, but as you prgress this will become better than pure Sorcerer. The levels in DD will progress your Bloodline Abilities to level 8, and at higher levels of DD some of the DD Abilities will compensate for your lost 3rd and 15th level ones. With Favored Prestige Class and Prestigious Spellcaster you can keep the casting progression the same as if you went straight Sorcerer. Your Trapfinding Abilities will be about the same as for (4b).
Endgame: Sorcerer 5/Dragon Disciple 10/Sorcerer 5 or Sorcerer 6/Dragon Disciple 10/Sorcerer 4
BAB +12
Caster Level: 20 (with Prestigious Spellcaster x 3)
Casting Progression: 20 (with Prestigious Spellcaster x 3)
Level-based Bonus for Trapfinding: +5
Bloodline Ability Progression: 20 (DD gives you some NA and Energy Resistance as well as Wings so losing the 3rd and 15th level Abilities isn’t so bad)
----------
(4d) Inspired Blade Swashbuckler 1/Seeker Sorcerer 5/Dragon Disciple 2 (BAB +4)
This build is a mix of (4b) and (4c) in that you switch into Eldritch Knight when you are done with Dragon Disciple. Here are two options for future levels.
Endgame: Swashbuckler 1/Sorcerer 5/Dragon Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight 10
BAB +16
Caster Level: 20 (with Magical Knack and Prestigious Spellcaster)
Casting Progression: 18 (with Prestigious Spellcaster)
Level-based Bonus for Trapfinding: +2
Bloodline Ability Progression: 9 (except no 3rd or 15th level abilities. DD helps a bit.)
Endgame: Swashbuckler 1/Sorcerer 5/Dragon Disciple 8/Eldritch Knight 6
BAB +15
Caster Level: 20 (with Magical Knack and Prestigious Spellcaster x 2)
Casting Progression: 18 (with Prestigious Spellcaster x 2)
Level-based Bonus for Trapfinding: +2
Bloodline Ability Progression: 13 (except no 3rd or 15th level abilities. DD helps a bit.)
IMO yes, exploiter wizard is a better base to work off. Still better for teleporting in might be a wizard with the conjuration/teleportation school though, possibly with an archetype which doesn't lose arcane school like shadowcaster (for darkvision & thematics) or spirit binder (for a better familiar to help with tearing up enemies).
For disabling magic traps remember that dispel magic can suppress them for 1d4 rounds without needing trapfinding. Aram Zey's Focus may also be an option. For defence when jumping in remember to cast mirror image or one of its descendants before doing so, or maybe greater invisibility. For the alpha strike detonate could work, or empowered burning arc, empowered boneshaker, or maybe intensified empowered shocking grasp. If you're willing to devote traits to lowering metamagic cost even nastier things are possible.
Yes, I'm suggesting wizard 8 for this.
|
|
@Gisher
I really like that trapper idea. I'll see if I can get a build on that one by the end of tomorrow.
@avr
I see what you're talking about, and believe it, too. However, I've been playing vanilla wizard since 2e, and lately, I've wanted to try unorthodox things. Or rather, I want to see if I can make a wizard viable do things it wasn't meant to do, and probably shouldn't. In this case, I'm building a wizard to be a teleporting rogue with grease and stone walls and stuff.
Here is a link to a strange Arcane Trickster build I came up with.
It uses Snakebite Striker and accomplished sneak attacker to fulfill the arcane trickster requirements while losing as little bab/casting ass possible, and then evangelist to replace the horrible arcane trickster d6hd/low bab with d8hd/medium bab as well as some fun tricks.
The Aram Zey's Focus spell can give trapfinding when needed.
Dressed in Pharaasman robes (over a mithral shirt) the character will cast spells and generally play like a wizard