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As soon as you use manyshot, you are committed to a full attack. If you are tripped or disarmed from an AoO you provoked then you can still attack from prone or use melee attacks or use quick draw to draw a backup weapon. If you don't have a backup weapon or you don't wish to attack from prone, then your action is ended.
Manyshot says "When making a full-attack action with a bow ..."
The rule you're referring to says "Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action."
The search feature is your friend ! There are other threads like this one.
The FAQ says
"Manyshot: Can I fire two arrows with my shot, then cancel the full attack and take a move?
No. Though the rules for "Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack (Core Rulebook 187) give you the option to move after your first attack instead of making your remaining attacks, Manyshot locks you into using a full attack action as soon as you use it to shoot two arrows."
As soon as you rolled an attack roll using manyshot you are locked.I was under the impression that an AoO was resolved before the attack roll:
"An attack of opportunity “interrupts” the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character’s turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character’s turn)."
Everything halts to resolve the AoO before the arrows are nocked, let alone loosed. Am I misunderstanding this?
You are correct.
Not only that, but after the AoO you have to continue your action, if possible; you can't switch to another action. You'd be prone/disarmed before you got your shot off, but you'd still be locked into that action.
Basically, unless you had a way to continue your action (like kipping up from prone as a swift, or quick-drawing another bow), your full-attack would be over before it began.
Yep, once you declare your Manyshot action, your full attack's committed, you can't cancel it, and you're SOL if something interrupts you.
Essentially, think of it as taking between 3 to 6 seconds to draw both arrows, line them up and release them. Too much time has passed since the start of your turn to take any other actions.
The FAQ is clear about you not getting a move after using Manyshot. Just because it got interrupted, doesn't mean you didn't try to do it in the first place.
Of course, you can still make an unarmed attack from prone with an iterative BAB.
Of course, you can still make an unarmed attack from prone with an iterative BAB.
Manyshot locks you into, not only taking a full-attack, but taking a full attack with a bow. You must complete that action, if able, after the AoO resolves.
Unless you're suggesting that the entire full attack need not be with a bow to use Manyshot, which, I suppose could work that way.
Another example is trying to move, and someone trips you because you tried to leave a threatened square. That move action is gone. The idea of "Can I have my action back?" has come up before, and I do think that it deserves an FAQ.
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Another example is trying to move, and someone trips you because you tried to leave a threatened square. That move action is gone. The idea of "Can I have my action back?" has come up before, and I do think that it deserves an FAQ.
Well, it's a question that gets asked fairly frequently, even though the answer seems quite obvious to me.
It's really not that different from interrupting the concentration of a wizard who's trying to cast a full-round spell; he's also lost his whole turn.Does he? That's a serious question. If you interrupt him immediately (the equivalent of doing so in the first half of the round), why wouldn't he be able to do something with the latter half of the round? He's not actually spending the full turn casting if an AoO disrupts his casting.
He does, the rule is clear, and this is how it resolves an abstraction of what is "really" going on during that 6 seconds. In the "real world" two creatures with 8 natural attacks trading full attacks aren't really taking all 8 before the other takes 1, but that's how the rules treat it for simplicity.
I've also seen that FAQ. In fact, I linked to it in my original post. So I would question why you're quoting a rule to me that I'm clearly aware of.
Because I thought it actually answered your question. It turns out I didn't fully understand your question.
In fact, if you look closely at the FAQ, you'll notice this section:
"Manyshot locks you into using a full attack action as soon as you use it to shoot two arrows"
Which is the important part because in this case you're never able to actually use Manyshot to shoot two arrows. You get disarmed or tripped before you're ever able to fire. The arrows are never shot. Hence my question.
So *THIS* is the key. Your contention is that if you don't actually get both arrows off, then you might not be locked into Manyshot's full round action.
Any aoo or readied action that goes off because of an action interupts that action and that action is locked in. So if you ru to withdraw and are trooped you list the full turn cause you were doing a full round action
Another example is trying to move, and someone trips you because you tried to leave a threatened square. That move action is gone. The idea of "Can I have my action back?" has come up before, and I do think that it deserves an FAQ.If you start a Withdraw action (full-round), but your opponent readied an action to attack if you moved away and immediately trips you, do you lose one move action or the full round action?
In both of these cases, I don't question whether you lose something. You clearly lose at least the standard action for attacking or a move action for starting to move...the question is whether you lose the full round.
It's really not that different from interrupting the concentration of a wizard who's trying to cast a full-round spell; he's also lost his whole turn.Does he? That's a serious question. If you interrupt him immediately (the equivalent of doing so in the first half of the round), why wouldn't he be able to do something with the latter half of the round? He's not actually spending the full turn casting if an AoO disrupts his casting.
I don't think it is clear at all. I do not believe that a declaration of an action is the same as acting it out. In the order of events, the triggered action happens before the triggering event. In the case of trip, I do not believe that if you have not moved at all that you lose or are unable to change your move action. At our table we have agreed that if something would change your action you are able to "convert" your action to the least "costly" action possible based on what you have completed. So, if you decided to use two weapon fighting on a foe but killed them with the first strike of your weapon OR realized that your weapons are completely ineffective due to that first strike, you would be able to change your action to an attack (which you already made) and still have a move action left, which might allow you to flee.
Many will feel this goes against the rules. I am not so sure that it does. I absolutely agree that it goes against what is commonplace. But for me and my group, we can't get over the fact that someone can set up a triggering event, like a readied action, or perform AoO off of their turn because their reflexes are SO fast, yet that same character cannot react to their own actions anywhere near as fast. It is ridiculous.
As others have mentioned, Piazo has failed to address the ACTUAL meaning of the different interrupts and how much they actually interrupt. The distinction is if they "go before" or "stop the action". With spells we know breaking casting is the "stop the action" but most AoO are of the "go before" style.
The FAQ examples that the PDT uses are horrible because they do not "limit" the player's actions (which the question asked), they stop any and all actions completely. These are different and much easier to adjudicate.
In all of these cases (interruped withdraw action, using a full-attack action to TWF but choosing to stop after one attack, full-round spell lost due to AoO concentration check), as the rules currently stand, the entire action is indeed committed/lost. It may be "ridiculous", but that's what happens when you're using the abstraction of a turn/action based system.
The exception seems to be using the standard action "Start/Complete Full-Round Action". If you end your turn using this standard action, the intent is that you then complete the action by using another standard action on your next turn, but nothing forces you to do that. You could simply choose not to complete the spell.
Note however that you can't use this to full attack, charge, run, or withdraw, so in practice it's mostly used for spell-casting full-round spells.
The issue is that you needed to commit to the action that caused the attack, so if you're getting attacked cause the you started to manyshot then you can't change cause you are locked in once you start manyshot, and you "started" it for the enemy to react off of it.
So, if you decided to use two weapon fighting on a foe but killed them with the first strike of your weapon OR realized that your weapons are completely ineffective due to that first strike, you would be able to change your action to an attack (which you already made) and still have a move action left, which might allow you to flee.
This is good, since the rules on combat make specifically call this out as being an allowed option, converting a full-attack into a standard attack leaving you a move left over. (And it doesn't matter why you chose to abort a full-attack, it could be just as easily because you got disarmed as because you killed the foe).
What is missing is an explicit rule in ALL other cases that allow you to "undo" a stated action.
@wraithstrike - and this is exactly why this question is worthy of a FAQ (or blog post). It keeps coming up over and over.
I think people have two views of this and why half of the people don't click the FAQ.
1) yes, you chose your action, were interrupted, and continue if able, if unable you're just done. We feel this is clear in the rules.
2) It seems unfair that your action is "wasted" because the enemy was smart and we want to be able to change the action now that it's not valid. Can we have a FAQ that says we can?
So it seems to group 1 that the issue keeps coming up over and over cause group 2 aren't satisfied with the current rules and want it changed. Group 1 thinks there's no ambiguity of what the rules say to do, just that group 2 doesn't like the rules.
I see it as you are locked into the full round action, bUT I also agree that it could use an official answer. I will try another FAQ when I get home.
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Here's a question: say the enemy has Staggering Critical. Now, if you fire a ranged weapon, provoke, get crit, and get become staggered then clearly you cannot continue into a full attack (but your initial shot goes off).
What happens in that scenario but you try to manyshot instead?
Does becoming staggered (meaning you can no longer full attack) mean you cannot fire any attack (since manyshot is only allowed on a full attack)? You're still "locked" into the manyshot...which you can no longer do.
Pretty much. Once you start an action it's gone. If you can't complete the action, for whatever reason, you're SOL.
It's a lot like a Wizard failing a concentration check. The spell and the action are wasted.
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Here's a question: say the enemy has Staggering Critical. Now, if you fire a ranged weapon, provoke, get crit, and get become staggered then clearly you cannot continue into a full attack (but your initial shot goes off).
What happens in that scenario but you try to manyshot instead?
Does becoming staggered (meaning you can no longer full attack) mean you cannot fire any attack (since manyshot is only allowed on a full attack)? You're still "locked" into the manyshot...which you can no longer do.
Pretty much. Once you start an action it's gone. If you can't complete the action, for whatever reason, you're SOL.
It's a lot like a Wizard failing a concentration check. The spell and the action are wasted.
This +1. If your action is invalidated it's gone and the enemy outplayed you,.
Here's a question: say the enemy has Staggering Critical. Now, if you fire a ranged weapon, provoke, get crit, and get become staggered then clearly you cannot continue into a full attack (but your initial shot goes off).
What happens in that scenario but you try to manyshot instead?
Does becoming staggered (meaning you can no longer full attack) mean you cannot fire any attack (since manyshot is only allowed on a full attack)? You're still "locked" into the manyshot...which you can no longer do.
There's a FAQ about being staggered by an AoO or other interrupting effect. It can be found here.
If I'm understanding your scenario correctly (player declares manyshot while in the threatened area of an opponent, opponent gets an AoO because player is using a ranged weapon in a threatened area, opponent's AoO connects and causes player to become staggered), I think the FAQ is saying that the player's full-attack action ends immediately (without getting the two-arrow pair attack off). If the player has anything left (such as a swift action) they can still use that.
I created an FAQ around the general idea of getting actions back.
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This +1. If your action is invalidated it's gone and the enemy outplayed you,.If you're not able to Manyshot, then what provoked the AoO in the first place?
There's a FAQ about being staggered by an AoO or other interrupting effect. It can be found here.Slim, we keep doing this. I'm aware of that FAQ. In fact, that FAQ is why I used the staggered example -- specifically, I brought up something NOT covered in that FAQ. The FAQ talks about not allowing FURTHER attacks as part of a full attack.
If I'm understanding your scenario correctly (player declares manyshot while in the threatened area of an opponent, opponent gets an AoO because player is using a ranged weapon in a threatened area, opponent's AoO connects and causes player to become staggered), I think the FAQ is saying that the player's full-attack action ends immediately (without getting the two-arrow pair attack off). If the player has anything left (such as a swift action) they can still use that.So your assertion is as follows:
A. Player tries to fire a ranged attack to start a full attack, gets staggered, still gets off first attack, cannot continue full attack.
B, Player tries to manyshot to start a full attack, gets staggered, entire turn is canceled without any attack going off.
you can't FINISH manyshot. You started manyshot, got interrupted and put into a state that you can't manyshot, when you come back to your turn you try to finish the action that triggered the attack, since you can't you're just done.
THe reason is is that manyshot is a special full round attack and not a normal full round attack. On a normal full round you can stop after one shot. On this special full round you can't stop after one shot, so it's an all or nothing.
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This +1. If your action is invalidated it's gone and the enemy outplayed you,.If you're not able to Manyshot, then what provoked the AoO in the first place?
If you take any action, provoke, and die as a result, what caused the provocation?
Your inability to complete the action doesn't mean you didn't start it, just that it is no longer a valid action for you.
So your assertion is as follows:A. Player tries to fire a ranged attack to start a full attack, gets staggered, still gets off first attack, cannot continue full attack.
B, Player tries to manyshot to start a full attack, gets staggered, entire turn is canceled without any attack going off.
Almost, but not quite. My 'B' position is that the entire full-round action (of manyshot) is cancelled, but not necessarily is his turn over. "Manyshot" is indivisible. It may be that it's two arrows on one bowstring, drawn once, that makes its attack all-or-nothing. Fluff it however you might, but that's what I get out of the FAQs.
You did not mention the staggered FAQ, thus, I have no way of knowing if you're aware of it or not. I mentioned it so that any reader knows that I'm aware of it as well, and not just making things up out of air. I provided a link rather than quoting it so other readers can check it out or not as they wish.