Coping with abysmal will


Advice


Let's say my slayer's bonus to will saves was -3 at level 1 due to very poorly rolled stats* (and they wont be getting much better due to low class save progression). What ways would there be to cope with / bypass this weakness?

For example, I have already chosen to make the character an elf in order to become immune to magical sleep effects, covering that corner of will-based saves.

Are there simple ways to become immune to other will-based effects?
Is it worth trying to invest in feats like iron will that grant a static bonus, when the character will likely fail the saves regardless (and I could use the feats elsewhere)?
Is there a way to use a familiar/animal companion/ally's modifier in place of my own?
Are there any good tricks that'll allow me to ignore will-based spells (entirely or a percentage of the time)?

Also curious to see what people's opinions are of how much the character's low will is likely to hurt him throughout his (possibly short) adventuring career.

* We used 3d6 (no rerolls or dropping): My lowest stats were two 5s and an 9, so I dumped charisma and wisdom and put the 9 in intelligence (elf boosted to 11) because I really didn't want my slayer to be thick as a brick... the stats werent all bad mind you, getting 17(dex, elf boosted to 19) 16(con, elf dropped to 14) and 12(str) suited the martial nature of the weapon finesse/ranged slayer I was wanting to play.

Scarab Sages

I would have been a dwarf instead of an elf if you want to boost saves. Racial Hardiness plus the Glory of old trait plus the steel soul feat is good for a +5 to all saves vs spells and slas which will protect you more than elven immunity. Barring dwarf, Sacred Tattoo half orc with fates favored is good for + 2 to all saves.

The problem is that the 3d6 no retools can only be used to make powerful SAD classes such as full casters. Any class that is MAD such as every martial is going to be underpowered, whiles wizards will still be able to start with a 19 primary ability score and a decent con.

There is only so much you can do with a wis 5.


Since the recent ioun stone nerf, the only real way to cut out a chunk of will saves is via mind buttressing armor which isn't an economical solution to say the least. Besides that you're basically stuck with the old staples like cloaks of resistance and begging your local cleric to keep Protection form (alignment) on you the second you see a guy in a robe on the enemy side.

There's nothing else that I can think of that does what you ask. Take Iron Will as soon as you're capable is really the best advice you can have at low levels. That and pray you don't run into enchanters or people with curses. Or frightful presence.


Protection from evil covers a fair chunk, or until the Adventurer Guide's nerfing of the wayfinder/clear spindle ioun stone resonance becomes widely used you could use that.

Many will save effects target an individual. If you're invisible or hidden via stealth you're all but immune to these.

OTOH Fear effects often affect an area. A headband of unshakeable resolve is what you want here.

& IMO, save your feats and traits. Besides being poor value in this instance, if your GM can't adapt to the results of 3d6/no rerolls they shouldn't have set the game up this way.


Imbicatus wrote:

I would have been a dwarf instead of an elf if you want to boost saves. Racial Hardiness plus the Glory of old trait plus the steel soul feat is good for a +5 to all saves vs spells and slas which will protect you more than elven immunity. Barring dwarf, Sacred Tattoo half orc with fates favored is good for + 2 to all saves.

The problem is that the 3d6 no retools can only be used to make powerful SAD classes such as full casters. Any class that is MAD such as every martial is going to be underpowered, whiles wizards will still be able to start with a 19 primary ability score and a decent con.

There is only so much you can do with a wis 5.

Indeed, we've had the first session and the elf isn't something that will be changing now though. Oh I forgot to mention we aren't gaining starting traits.

I figure if there's other feats / items that I can pick up to sneakily bypass the bad will entirely then that'll probably be the best way to deal with it at this point, but i'm not too familiar with such things.

@tarik & avr
Hmmm bummer, but I'll look into the items anyway, and possiby see if I can wrangle a way to get something similar to protection from alignment for myself (self reliance n' all that). So would you say fear is likely the thing that'll be hitting me most? What are the other main dangers? (if I can identify the main things that'll be hurting me, I can at least try to find ways to cope better with them)


Fear's the commonest especially at low levels. Illusions come next IME, then a bunch of stuff affected by protection from alignment, then confusion, then a large bunch of odds and ends (slow, paralyzing e.g. hold person, dazing, stunning e.g. color spray, blinding, weird stuff.)

Other's experiences will probably vary.


That said, it really depends on your GM or the adventure. I honestly never really ran into monsters with frightful presence (or at least of the magnitude where you hit Frightened and not just shaken) till L5+ and most GMs IME tend not to bombard low level folk with proper suck/saves like color spray or holds.

Illusions are pretty common and other minutae like glitterdust or ear piercing scream with maybe a boss encounter having a dominate or something along those lines. You have any point of reference on what the campaign will be?


Since your race is already set there is not a whole lot you can do. It sounds like your GM is trying to play an old school type game. Even back in when I played 1st edition AD&D with similar character generation a character like that would have likely been declared hopeless by the DM and a reroll would have been granted.

Your character is going a be a huge liability in any kind of social circumstance. You are pretty much playing Dustin Hoffman’s character from the movie Rain Man except without the mathematic ability. The penalty from your stats for skills like bluff, disguise perception, intimidate and sense motive are going to be nearly crippling.

Playing a slayer with those stats was probably a mistake. If you GM did not let you reroll than you should have played a S.A.D. class. Probably the best bet would have been a witch or wizard. You could have put the 5's in STR and CH, with the 9 going to WIS. This would have let you put the 17 in INT, the 16 in DEX and a 12 CON.

If you could play a different race an android would have be a better choice. They are immune to fear and emotion and get a +4 on mind affecting saves. At that point you are not that much lower than normal so things like Iron Will could have brought you up to near normal.


Advice noted, thanks! I'll try to pick up something that'll help with fear or illusions!

@Mysterious Stranger
Thankfully(?) the GM doesnt put much stock in charisma skills / charisma scores (I dont think ive ever seen someone have to make a roll or reference their charisma in the last few campaigns, which bugs me to no end because it disregards that part of the game and every player (except some casters) are free to dump it*, but it actually manages to work in my favor in this case - and similarly people with low wisdom have been able to make plans and follow through on things rp-wise in spite of what their wisdom score would represent.) so aside from the saving throws and perception, having the low score wont be making me too much like rain man. I think your assessment of making it an "old school type game" is accurate, given that he's been playing for a loooooooong time and is very stubbornly set into his way of GM'ing.

In regard to android, I noticed that online but the GM decided it was too exotic, which I agree with because I like my rpgs mostly sci-fi free anyway, otherwise it could have been a nice option, I could downgrade my elf to a half-elf if that's any help, but I dont think that'd open up many more options(?).

* possibly leading to the ugliest adventuring parties known to man...

Tarik Blackhands wrote:
Illusions are pretty common and other minutae like glitterdust or ear piercing scream with maybe a boss encounter having a dominate or something along those lines. You have any point of reference on what the campaign will be?

Well we've started (as most campaigns seem to) in a tavern, talking about bandits or goblins but in previous campaigns such things have had little bearing on the weirdness of the quests that followed, the only thing that worries me is he's VERY fond of throwing casters at us (usually with a group of a few 1-hittable minions), and that usually means saving throws every round.

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