so I'm built a lvl 20 cavalier npc but I somehow skipped over the multiplier rules when reading over the CRB, so a lance does 2d8 on a mounted charge and paired with spirited charge he will do 3d8 not 4d8 as per the rules? combined with supreme charge he will do 4d8? and on a crit it is 6d8 for a total of a 6x multiplier? have I got this right?
yup, when you get more multipliers you add them up.
coolio thanks for the help
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A mounted charge with a lance is a bit different. Compared to something like Vital Strike, in which you multiply the number of dice, a charge with a lance (and Spirited Charge) only doubles (triples) the damage result.
A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).
Let us use an example:
You are on a mount and charged with a lance. Your normal damage is 1d8+4. When you charge, it will be the result of the 1d8+4 and multiply by 2. So if you roll a 1 on the d8, you will be doing 10 damage ((1+4)*2), not 2d8+8 (which can have each dice roll different numbers).
It is a bit weird like that with the two.
Edit:
Here is a quote about multiplying criticals
Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
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A mounted charge with a lance is a bit different. Compared to something like Vital Strike, in which you multiply the number of dice, a charge with a lance (and Spirited Charge) only doubles (triples) the damage result.
This is not how a mounted charge with a lance works. In Pathfinder damage multipliers are always rolled, not simply calculated from the original roll. See the core rulebook on the subject:
Multiplying Damage: Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results.
Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage. So if you are asked to double the damage twice, the end result is three times the normal damage.
Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied.
The difference with Vital Strike is covered by the mentioned exception. With Vital Strike the modifiers are not multiplied for the extra dice provided by the feat.
Ok so let's put this into perspective this NPC has a strength mod of 10, for simplicity let's say I roll like a god and only get 8's so that's 6d8 +60 for a total of 108 damage?
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Ok so let's put this into perspective this NPC has a strength mod of 10, for simplicity let's say I roll like a god and only get 8's so that's 6d8 +60 for a total of 108 damage?
Almost. You also need to take into account that a lance is a two-handed weapon so you get your strength bonus to damage multiplied by 1½.
So a critical hit with with a medium sized mounted lance charge with spirited charge, supreme charge, and strength 30 would be 6d8+90. Add Power Attack (also with 1½ times damage bonus) and Furious Focus for more hurt without attack penalties.
Even if you wield the lance with one hand to carry a shield in the other you are considered to be attacking two-handed.
Even if you wield the lance with one hand to carry a shield in the other you are considered to be attacking two-handed.
really? I thought you could only do one handed damage with it if you wield it one handed? can I get a reference to this?
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Even if you wield the lance with one hand to carry a shield in the other you are considered to be attacking two-handed.really? I thought you could only do one handed damage with it if you wield it one handed? can I get a reference to this?
CRB, pages 141, 143 and 147
Apply 1-1/2 times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a two-handed weapon.
A lance is and remains a two-handed weapon.
Even if you wield the lance with one hand to carry a shield in the other you are considered to be attacking two-handed.really? I thought you could only do one handed damage with it if you wield it one handed? can I get a reference to this?CRB, pages 141, 143 and 147
Apply 1-1/2 times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a two-handed weapon.
A lance is and remains a two-handed weapon.
but you can weild a 1 handed weapon with 2 hands and get 1-1/2 strength damage so wouldn't it work the other way around?
Fairly certain it's because your wielding it with 2 hands not because of the weapon itself. Standard rules say you use 1-1/2 strength with a two handed weapon and a two handed weapon can't be wielded with one hand unless otherwise stated
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but you can weild a 1 handed weapon with 2 hands and get 1-1/2 strength damage so wouldn't it work the other way around?Even if you wield the lance with one hand to carry a shield in the other you are considered to be attacking two-handed.really? I thought you could only do one handed damage with it if you wield it one handed? can I get a reference to this?CRB, pages 141, 143 and 147
Apply 1-1/2 times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a two-handed weapon.
A lance is and remains a two-handed weapon.
Is that what the rule says? Page references are above.
a two handed weapon can't be wielded with one hand unless otherwise stated
The description of a lance otherwise states.
You do not get 1.5x strength damage (FAQ #1)
You do get +50% Power Attack damage (FAQ #2)
And if you think this is contradictory, welcome to the club.
These two FAQs directly contradict each other but people scream 'specific trumps general' in the case of the Power Attack FAQ.
Personally, I think this is a case of Paizo changing it's mind and never re-examining the earlier (Power Attack) FAQ.
but you can weild a 1 handed weapon with 2 hands and get 1-1/2 strength damage so wouldn't it work the other way around?Even if you wield the lance with one hand to carry a shield in the other you are considered to be attacking two-handed.really? I thought you could only do one handed damage with it if you wield it one handed? can I get a reference to this?CRB, pages 141, 143 and 147
Apply 1-1/2 times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a two-handed weapon.
A lance is and remains a two-handed weapon.
Is that what the rule says? Page references are above.
a two handed weapon can't be wielded with one hand unless otherwise statedThe description of a lance otherwise states.
yea mate the lance would be one of those "unless otherwise stated" things, it's in the combat rules under damage
You do not get 1.5x strength damage (FAQ #1)
You do get +50% Power Attack damage (FAQ #2)
And if you think this is contradictory, welcome to the club.
These two FAQs directly contradict each other but people scream 'specific trumps general' in the case of the Power Attack FAQ.
Personally, I think this is a case of Paizo changing it's mind and never re-examining the earlier (Power Attack) FAQ.
They're not contradictory and you do get 1.5 strength.
The lance uses the wording "While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand".
This is significantly different from the verbiage that your first FAQ is referring to which says things "treat X as a one-handed weapon".
The "treat" part implies that for you the weapon functions differently than normal, you treat it as though it were a 1 handed weapon. The lance description never says anything like this.
Claxon, FAQ #1 states that you treat all 2handed weapons wielded in 1 hand as if they are 1handed weapons. It is pretty clear.
FAQ #2 only contradicts this for the Lance (it tries to for everything but only the lance was specifically mentioned).
Even the Devs have stated they are in contradiction.
I 100% disagree Guass. It says you treat all two-handed weapons wielded in two hands which have the words "treat a weapon that is normally wielded in two hands as a one handed weapon" as one handed weapons. The lance doesn't have that wording at all.
Think of it this way, that first FAQ you linked applies to think like Jotungrip which says:
"Jotungrip (Ex): At 2nd level, a titan mauler may choose to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand with a –2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and it is treated as one-handed when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like. This ability replaces uncanny dodge."
Although this one is pretty explicitly clear how it works because it says so.
However, as I stated the lance entry doesn't have any language like that.
It is not subject to the FAQ because the lance doesn't use "a feat or special ability" to be used in one hand and because it doesn't use the wording that the FAQ discusses.
If you understand it this way, you also realize it doesn't create any contradictions with the other FAQ.
If the Devs intended for the lance the be covered by the 1st FAQ they didn't word it properly and should have explicitly included the lance.