Cleric / Zen Archer - Feats


Advice


I am playing a Zen archer cleric of Erastil for PFS, and I am looking for advice on potential feat selection. The character will mainly provide party buffing support through spells and channels, but will also provide some damage support through archery. The character has 1 level of Zen Archer monk and the rest will be cleric levels. So far the character design looks as follows:

STR 10, DEX 15, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 13 (15), CHA 14
+1 to DEX and WIS, respectively, at 4th and 8th levels

Traits:
deadeye bowman, birthmark

Feats:
point blank shot – 1st level human bonus feat
selective channeling – 1st level character feat
precise shot – 1st level monk bonus feat
weapon focus longbow – 3rd level character feat
deadly aim - 5th level character feat
?????? - 7th level character feat
clustered shots - 9th level character feat
?????? - 11th level character feat

I am considering extra channeling and quick channel, or skill focus to augment important skills for the character. However, any other advice on feats would be appreciated.

Scarab Sages

If you're only taking a single level of ZAM, I'd recommend skipping the dip. At a single level all you get is an AC bonus that will not match what you would get from light armor, flurry of misses, and some save bonuses. You are giving up a point of bab, the ability to use manyshot, and spell progression.

You also need to put more str into your build, a 10 just doesn't cut it for an archer.


Imbicatus wrote:

If you're only taking a single level of ZAM, I'd recommend skipping the dip. At a single level all you get is an AC bonus that will not match what you would get from light armor, flurry of misses, and some save bonuses. You are giving up a point of bab, the ability to use manyshot, and spell progression.

You also need to put more str into your build, a 10 just doesn't cut it for an archer.

I had considered that. However, I like the bump to saves and the IUS that monk gets. The AC bonus between difference between WIS and light armor is negligible, especially after getting WIS-boosting items. As well, the focus of the character is on party buffing, and given the MAD nature of the character, something has to give and that was STR. Further, there is some debate as to whether Deadeye Bowman applies to composite longbow, and I wished to avoid the possibility that a GM would not allow Deadeye Bowman to be applied to a composite longbow.

Edit: The loss of caster level is what bothers me the most about dipping, although I did take Separatist archetype which trades out Deity's favored weapon, which the ZAM dip picks up.


I agree with Imbicatus.

You should take 3 levels iz ZAM if you're going to take any.

Then exchange your Str with your Dex. Your character will primarily be str and wisdom based, as the 3rd level of ZAM allows you to use wis for your attack stat with bows.

You also don't really need charisma, the bonuses to channeling aren't worth it long term.

I would do something like this:

STR: 14 DEX: 10 CON: 12 INT: 10 WIS: 17 CHA: 10, modified by your racial ability score bonus.


Claxon wrote:

I agree with Imbicatus.

You should take 3 levels iz ZAM if you're going to take any.

Then exchange your Str with your Dex. Your character will primarily be str and wisdom based, as the 3rd level of ZAM allows you to use wis for your attack stat with bows.

You also don't really need charisma, the bonuses to channeling aren't worth it long term.

I would do something like this:

STR: 14 DEX: 10 CON: 12 INT: 10 WIS: 17 CHA: 10, modified by your racial ability score bonus.

I thought of this as well. But to take selective channeling requires 13 CHA, which is something I like for the emergency situation. This leaves less room for STR bump. Also, 3 levels of ZAM really cuts into cleric levels.


I would agree to either get rid of zen archer dip or take 3 levels. I rarely found selective channeling needed.


If I was going to take a 1 level dip, my favorite would be Ilsurian Archer Ranger - it gives you bullseye shot at 1st level (+4 to hit as move action) and the regular favored enemy from ranger (i.e. humanoid (human)).


if it's an emergency when you're channeling then it's an emergency and who cares if you need to include an enemy to save a life.
Also if it's an emergency and you're channeling it's either you were just hit by a fireball and the enemy isn't near you, OR it's that you can't move close enough to heal someone so you're using channel to heal at range, which means that enemies are possibly out of range.

But as is, if your focus is spellcasting buffs to other allies with ranged when you have nothing better to do I suggest getting something else to do as a backup, like domain powers to buff like glory or intimidating an enemy or something. having a really weak bow attack back-up option will quickly feel worthless without damage and without using selfish personal buffs to buff to be good at attack and damage. Cause I'll tell you now, having only a +2 and eventually+3 to your attack stat without 1 or likely 2 personal buff spells to compensate, your attacks will be basically useless. You'll frequently miss and when you hit it wont be for much.

lv 4 is +7 to hit against AC17 or 20. That's needing an 11 or 14 to hit, for 1d8 damage. That's DPR of 2.72 or 1.98.

At lv6 you have deadly aim and 4 bab. So you're now at +6 to hit against AC19 or AC23, needing a 13 or 17 to hit, for 1d8+4 damage. That is DPR of like 3.75 or 1.87

Your damage is just SO low that making them shaken, or giving a buff to allies with aid another, domain, or feat is far more effective. And also wont cost you 5 feats to be really bad at something.

If you want to salvage the build to be an archer it'll be a pretty big overhaul, but then wont be doing channeling or buffing the party via spells.


Here is a thread about making an archery cleric from a few years ago.
I think what you are doing would be a little different, but face many of the same issues.

I'm also curious what new material has appeared in the last couple of years.


There are positive changes, but most aren't allowed in PFS.

The divine paragon archetype (erastil) can get you wis to hit and dam within 30' at level 14.

The feat erastil's blessing (not allowed PFS) can get you wis to hit.

The prestige class hinterlander (not allowed PFS) gives extra feats and almost full level casting.

The trait deadeye bowman is like improved precise shot light.


I played a character like that, but it was in a gestalt game so I didn't have the problem of choosing where to stop the dip.
Basically, the Zen Archer bonus feats covered most of what I needed for archery; the basic ones I used as extras (I took things like Improved Initiative, Extra Channel, Spell Focus, Forge Rings).

Overall, the character was good. I could easily destroy series of mooks, while I had some problems hitting high AC enemies due to not having full BaB, but I could support the group with magic when I found that I was missing too much. I had some critical-improving feat that made my 20s extremely deadly.
I had excellent mobility and good saves, but AC wasn't that good (except touch) and HP were average; that means that when I couldn't stand for long if I was being targeted.

As others said, real sinergy comes at Zen Archer level 3 when you can use Wisdom to hit with your longbow. Since single hit damage will be rather low unless you score criticals, it's also important to have good strength (14 should be enough).
Get magic items that improve your hit chance (I had those Bracers of Falcon's Aim, but they have been rightfully nerfed now...).

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