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I think it's truly hard for them, because, basically, you'll have to look at EVERY previously released feat or class ability to see how the wording would collide with the description of their new content.
That's also why playing by RAW is, imho, totaly ridiculous. You'll only build a situation with infinite debates and abuses from the players.
What is suited for coherent campaigns is to understand the INTENT behind the feat. aka RAI. If you understand the intent of the author, you understand 90% of the time what is allowed and what's not.
For exemple, a Phallanx fighter is intented to allow the use of a spear and a shield together with no penality... you know, like a phallanx. NOT make the spear finessable.For Bladed Brush, it's a bit less evident, but the description says that you basicaly are not considered as using you off-hand when using the Glaive, which is precisely the condition for using Slashing Grace... so I'll bet it was intented to allow this mix.
It even explicitely allows the Swashbuckler Precise Strike, which is quite similar to Slashing Grace in its behavior.
While I understand what you are saying here, the problem I run across is people who go around stating something is RAI with no proof, and then seem surprised when the Errata/FAQ/Dev comment doesn't agree with them. And that's the best case, when it doesn't get Errata/FAQ/Dev commented it can be widely accepted and still be wrong, or there can be different ideas of RAI in a single case.
I do apologize for the language I used in my previous post. That really wasn't at all necessary.
The Elven Branched Spear is capable of being used with weapon finesse, too. Do you assume it is being held in one hand just because weapon finesse is used with one handed weapons? No. That would be ridiculous.
You cannot quote just the first half of the sentence in the feat. It says:
When wielding a glaive, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s or swashbuckler’s precise strike).
Notice it explicitly states you can treat it as a one handed weapon for these exact circumstances. Notice how it does not say you can wield your glaive with one hand in combat? Notice how other abilities that allow you to hold a polearm in one hand actually say exactly that you can hold a polearm in one hand? Notice how the sentence starts with "when you wield a glaive", this is at the beginning of the sentence and it's very important, too. What is a glaive? A 2H polearm? How do you wield a 2H polearm? Oh yeah, with two hands. So, now that you are wielding a glaive, which is a 2H polearm requiring two hands to wield, you can continue reading the sentence that everyone gets confused about. But remember, you are wielding a glaive which has a definition in this game as a 2H polearm, and thus has a defined way of being wielded.
Bladed Brush Combat is a wonderful feat. It does exactly what it says it does. It even tells you what weapon finesse does instead of just saying you can use weapon finesse with a glaive. If it's that specific in one case, don't you think it would explicitly state you could use it in one hand if that's what the feat wanted you to do? Why would it be so exact in one sentence and not the next?
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You lay out good reasoning and inferences... but nothing definitive.
To me, the most indicative bit is actually, "...as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand...".
If the feat allowed one-handed glaive use then you actually COULD be not making attacks with your off-hand... rather than merely being treated "as if" you were not. Conversely, you COULD be making attacks with that off-hand (since we are assuming it isn't used for the glaive)... which, to me, seems unlikely to have been the intent. You get weapon finesse with a two handed weapon in one hand AND you can attack with the other hand while being treated as if you WEREN'T doing so? Doesn't seem likely.
However, even that could just be a case of wording copied from other locations with the intent of saying bladed brush can be used with feats/abilities requiring the off-hand to be unused... with the unstated intent that you actually aren't using it.
Basically, I agree that two-handed seems (by far IMO) the more likely intent when all the available evidence is taken in to account, but language is flexible enough that the one-handed interpretation is not impossible.
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Bladed Brush- hey look, here's a cool feat that let's you do swashbuckler stuff with a glaive!
Slashing Grace interp Nazis: no;n fun ius not allowed to be had. Scimitar is the only weapon you are ever allowed to apply slashing grace to, and you are wrong for doing so, make a power attack 2 handed sword user, or gtf off my table.
PF2: dont worry guys! We're just eliminating all the options! There won't even be weapons that aren't the two handed sword available for purchase, so no one will make the mistake of trying to have fun by being different!
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Bladed Brush- hey look, here's a cool feat that let's you do swashbuckler stuff with a glaive!
Slashing Grace interp Nazis: no;n fun ius not allowed to be had. Scimitar is the only weapon you are ever allowed to apply slashing grace to, and you are wrong for doing so, make a power attack 2 handed sword user, or gtf off my table.
PF2: dont worry guys! We're just eliminating all the options! There won't even be weapons that aren't the two handed sword available for purchase, so no one will make the mistake of trying to have fun by being different!
This is a good summary of every conversation involving Bladed Brush Combat. Fun?! In a fantasy game?! Oh no you don't!
I used Slashing Grace with the Fighting Fan on one character, and with Unarmed Strikes through Tiger Style and Boar Style, though much like a brawler, said feats only applied while my unarmed strike was a slashing weapon, thus only during stance.
I agree to that Bladed Brush Combat does not state you are using the weapon one handed, Finesse or otherwise, therefor the conflict is only in Sladhing Grace, which as the other two graces, require the other hand completely free. You can't even hold two weapons and apply Slashing Grace, even if only using one. RAW, or RAI, I come up with the same, Slashing Grace being specific to "off hand must be free" is the conflict. Even if bladed brush counts your second hand as not making an attack, it is not free, thus you cannot Slashing Grace with it without additional feats. Either one to use polearms one handed, or Two-Weapon Grace to negate the second hand free part of Slashing Grace.
Bladed Brush states you can treat it as a one handed weapon for the sake of prerequisites. But you are still holding a two handed weapon in both hands.No, it does not. It says you can do so [/b]while wielding the weapon[b]. This is a very important difference. You can't apply a feat that requires a one-handed slashing weapon to a weapon that is't considered a one-handed slashing weapon 100% of the time.
Why not? When the wording is "for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon"
Why not? When the wording is "for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon"Bladed Brush states you can treat it as a one handed weapon for the sake of prerequisites. But you are still holding a two handed weapon in both hands.No, it does not. It says you can do so [/b]while wielding the weapon[b]. This is a very important difference. You can't apply a feat that requires a one-handed slashing weapon to a weapon that is't considered a one-handed slashing weapon 100% of the time.
Exactly. It counts for the feat, even if it doesn't work. Same as styles to make unarmed slashing, or how brawlers have TWF only while flurrying. The only major difference is while yes, it applies it just can't really be used without additional feats or abilities.
There's nothing in the rules though that says you can't take it. The rules just say you can't use the ability (without other abilities).
The question is whether "glaive" qualifies for the "pick one one handed slashing weapon" clause and the prerequisites.
I'd say it obviously should because the feat is literally supposed to be "do swashbuckler stuff with a glaive", but in a very technical sense it does not.
The question is whether "glaive" qualifies for the "pick one one handed slashing weapon" clause and the prerequisites.
It does if you select the feat while holding a glaive.
Thematically, this simply translates to "I learned a new trick while practicing with my glaive."
Well, more like I was praying to Shelyn and she showed me this... But yeah, same difference. Everyone gets super picky about what it does, but forgets how they get it. A deity is showing you a trick with their favorite weapon as a reward for your worship. It's a power you have because of the power you source from your faith. No, not everyone who carries a glaive can do what you can do, unless they worship Sheylyn and she blesses them with this particular trick. But this wonderful power given to you by a god somehow doesn't qualify for Slashing Grace because mere mortals of this forum can't read words. Her glorious power states it works for the swashy finesse crap, which requires it to function as a piercing weapon, but people can't agree if it qualifies for Slashing Grace, which does the exact same thing, without changing the damage type of your glaive. Shelyn can change your glaive to a piercing weapon so it qualifies for swashbuckler crap, but somehow cannot allow you to use Slashing Grace? You weren't out in a field, dicking off with your glaive and suddenly learned this trick, it is bestowed upon you as a gift from a god, and people want to argue that it works for the swashy but not for Slashing Grace, which is a feat, and Bladed Brush Combat says explicitly it works for prerequisites of feats.
Why not? When the wording is "for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon"Bladed Brush states you can treat it as a one handed weapon for the sake of prerequisites. But you are still holding a two handed weapon in both hands.No, it does not. It says you can do so [/b]while wielding the weapon[b]. This is a very important difference. You can't apply a feat that requires a one-handed slashing weapon to a weapon that is't considered a one-handed slashing weapon 100% of the time.Exactly. It counts for the feat, even if it doesn't work. Same as styles to make unarmed slashing, or how brawlers have TWF only while flurrying. The only major difference is while yes, it applies it just can't really be used without additional feats or abilities.
There's nothing in the rules though that says you can't take it. The rules just say you can't use the ability (without other abilities).
Uh, why not?
Uh, why not?Why not? When the wording is "for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon"Bladed Brush states you can treat it as a one handed weapon for the sake of prerequisites. But you are still holding a two handed weapon in both hands.No, it does not. It says you can do so [/b]while wielding the weapon[b]. This is a very important difference. You can't apply a feat that requires a one-handed slashing weapon to a weapon that is't considered a one-handed slashing weapon 100% of the time.Exactly. It counts for the feat, even if it doesn't work. Same as styles to make unarmed slashing, or how brawlers have TWF only while flurrying. The only major difference is while yes, it applies it just can't really be used without additional feats or abilities.
There's nothing in the rules though that says you can't take it. The rules just say you can't use the ability (without other abilities).
Eratta to Slashing Grace from when Fencing and Starry Grace were released. They put in a specification that "You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.".
Bladed Brush Combat specifies "you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon", so it does qualify to take the feat, but since it does not make the hand free, or allow you to use the glaive one-handed you can't use the feat without an additional feat to make the hand free (wield the glaive one handed, or count the hand as free, not just not making an off-hand attack).
An example is Two-Weapon Grace, which lets you "you can use the aforementioned feats despite your other hand being occupied." However it has additional tax of Two-Weapon Fighting. There may be better ways to bypass this restriction.
Uh, why not?Why not? When the wording is "for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon"Bladed Brush states you can treat it as a one handed weapon for the sake of prerequisites. But you are still holding a two handed weapon in both hands.No, it does not. It says you can do so [/b]while wielding the weapon[b]. This is a very important difference. You can't apply a feat that requires a one-handed slashing weapon to a weapon that is't considered a one-handed slashing weapon 100% of the time.Exactly. It counts for the feat, even if it doesn't work. Same as styles to make unarmed slashing, or how brawlers have TWF only while flurrying. The only major difference is while yes, it applies it just can't really be used without additional feats or abilities.
There's nothing in the rules though that says you can't take it. The rules just say you can't use the ability (without other abilities).
Eratta to Slashing Grace from when Fencing and Starry Grace were released. They put in a specification that "You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.".
Bladed Brush Combat specifies "you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon", so it does qualify to take the feat, but since it does not make the hand free, or allow you to use the glaive one-handed you can't use the feat without an additional feat to make the hand free (wield the glaive one handed, or count the hand as free, not just not making an off-hand attack).
An example is Two-Weapon Grace, which lets you...
Ok, but thats a separate question.
