Witch-related questions


Rules Questions


OK,
Once our current instance of Jade Regent is over, we're going to do a new game with a new DM. And I've agreed to take the healer role. My plan is to play a male witch, but man, there are a lot of weird corner cases that pop up. I'm planning on asking the DM to make a bunch of rulings, but thought I'd start here and see if there are official calls on some of these and if not, to get a wide variety of opinions before shipping the questions off to him. I suspect I'm going to have a lot more...


  • Activation time.
    For things like flight, prehensile hair, etc. What is the action use here? This is for things that you can use for 1 minute per day. I can see three options i) Standard action to activate, after that use for the next minute or longer until you take a free action to turn if off ii) Free action to activate and use iii) standard action to activate and use. iii seems crazy (couldn't attack with it for example). And what about things like "can use feather fall at will"? Is that too a standard action?

  • Prehensile hair and secondary attack.
    If you just attack with the hair, does the secondary attack thing matter? My sense is that per the definition of secondary attacks ("Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls.") it would be an attack at full BAB, no iterative attack, x1.5 STR damage.
  • Hedge witch
    Does a hedge witch gain the powers listed immediately or only at levels 4 and 8?

  • Split hex feat
    If you split hex on a touch spell, can the second target be affected at range (30 feet)?

  • Lastly
    What does the * mean next to some of the hexes?


Hexes are a standard action to activate unless otherwise stated.

Feather Fall, per the spell, is an immediate action.


Abraham Z. wrote:

Hexes are a standard action to activate unless otherwise stated.

Feather Fall, per the spell, is an immediate action.

The exact wording is that "using a hex is a standard action" not activating. I'm not at all sure that feather fall's casting time plays a role here. It doesn't say you can *cast* it, rather than you can *use* it.

That said, I think I agree with you on the final outcome. I just don't think it's obvious.


With my witches, I've assumed that hexes like Flight would normally take a standard action to activate, and then remain active until you turned them off (crossing off increments of 1 minute from your minutes of use). Abraham makes a good point, though, that Feather Fall would be the exception and allow you to activate it as an immediate action. (I assume you don't lose this ability at higher levels! It's poorly written.)

I haven't tried prehensile hair myself, but I think they were assuming that you'd make a normal attack with your hands/weapon. I'd agree with you about what happens if you only attack with your beard or whatever. The question remains: why bother?

I'm playing a Hedge Witch right now, and I just assumed she'd get the two powers immediately. It sure doesn't say, "Starting at 4th/8th level..."

What touch "spells?" I'm not aware of witch hexes with a range of Touch, and "Split Hex" only applies to hexes. And what *? Can you link or quote some examples?


bitter lily wrote:

With my witches, I've assumed that hexes like Flight would normally take a standard action to activate, and then remain active until you turned them off (crossing off increments of 1 minute from your minutes of use). Abraham makes a good point, though, that Feather Fall would be the exception and allow you to activate it as an immediate action. (I assume you don't lose this ability at higher levels! It's poorly written.)

Yes, I'm assuming you don't lose them too.

Quote:


I haven't tried prehensile hair myself, but I think they were assuming that you'd make a normal attack with your hands/weapon. I'd agree with you about what happens if you only attack with your beard or whatever. The question remains: why bother?

My character will have a 6 strength. If he makes a melee attack, it's going to be only with the beard. Which actually won't be a horrible attack at low levels. But spending a standard action to "turn on" the beard kind of sucks.

Quote:


I'm playing a Hedge Witch right now, and I just assumed she'd get the two powers immediately. It sure doesn't say, "Starting at 4th/8th level..."

Yes, that's my take too. But it seems odd.

Quote:


What touch "spells?" I'm not aware of witch hexes with a range of Touch, and "Split Hex" only applies to hexes. And what *? Can you link or quote some examples?

Healing for one.


When something replaces something you get at a certain level, you get it when you would have gotten what it replaces. Hence 'replaces'.


Shoot! Well, it's all right for me, because my GMC started at 5th, and I haven't used the 8th-level replacement yet. But I'll have to change my character sheet. That spontaneous Cure is the hallmark of a Hedge Witch. To have to wait until you're well into 2nd level spells...

Most such replacements are better worded. For instance, subdomain abilities that replace 8th-level domain abilities all say "At 8th level..."


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Dave Justus wrote:
When something replaces something you get at a certain level, you get it when you would have gotten what it replaces. Hence 'replaces'.

Do you have a source for that statement? I have seen instances where they errataed something to make sure that you didn't get an archetype feature before you would have received the replaced class feature and others where they let such items go. There are definitely cases where you gain an archetype feature a level or more after you would have received the replaced class feature.


David knott 242 wrote:
Dave Justus wrote:
When something replaces something you get at a certain level, you get it when you would have gotten what it replaces. Hence 'replaces'.
Do you have a source for that statement? I have seen instances where they errataed something to make sure that you didn't get an archetype feature before you would have received the replaced class feature and others where they let such items go. There are definitely cases (such as the subject of this thread) where you gain an archetype feature a level or more after you would have received the replaced class feature.

The point is, the wording makes it look like you get the new features at first level! "Buy now, pay later."


In general using an ability that emulates a spell effect takes as long as the spell to activate unless otherwise noted. Hexes might be an exception, but I doubt it.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Exactly -- and I was wanting to know how you can be sure that "buy now, pay later" is not the case. As I mentioned, there are certainly cases of "pay now, receive later" (such as for ranger archetypes that give up spellcasting).


Hobit of Bree wrote:
If you just attack with the hair, does the secondary attack thing matter?

No. If it's your only natural attack and you don't make a weapon attack, the natural attack rules override the actual type and you treat it as a primary natural attack that adds 1.5xSTR on the damage roll.

Hobit of Bree wrote:
Does a hedge witch gain the powers listed immediately

As written, yes. Possibly not intended, though.

Hobit of Bree wrote:
If you split hex on a touch [hex], can the second target be affected at range (30 feet)?

As written, yes. Possibly not intended, though.

Hobit of Bree wrote:
What does the * mean next to some of the hexes?

You mean on d20pfsrd.com? That there's an FAQ for that hex.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Hobit of Bree wrote:
That said, I think I agree with you on the final outcome. I just don't think it's obvious.
Quote:
Unless otherwise noted, using a hex is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity

Feather Fall otherwise notes.


Hobit of Bree wrote:
What does the * mean next to some of the hexes?
You mean on d20pfsrd.com? That there's an FAQ for that hex.

Thanks for all the responses.


OK, one more. Folks are claiming that feather fall is only an immediate action because the spell is. Would the Nightmares hex take 10 minutes to cast because nightmare does? That would make the hex (which requires you be within 60 feet to cast) nearly worthless in nearly all cases IMO and I don't think is RAI.

I really do wish there would be a bit more editing/errata for stuff like this.


The Nightmares hex does not say it casts the spell. It states you call on fell powers. This fits with the default standard action.

Being hexed, however, gives you the effect of the spell, without casting it.

Hedge witch:
Archetypes have two kinds of class features. Those that list a level you gain them, and those that don't. Ones without a level defined are always there at all levels.
Since the hedge witch entries do not have a level listed, they are gained as part of the archetype and usable at first level.
Saying you don't get the effect until you pay the replacement price is at odds with some archetypes that give powers at levels different than the level of the item replaced. [Example: Cold Flesh.]

/cevah

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