Your lack of regard for others proves a boon when you fire projectiles into melee.
Prerequisites: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot.
Benefit: When you shoot or throw ranged weapons at an opponent engaged in melee, you can choose to take a –1 penalty to your AC and gain a +2 competence bonus on your attack roll. However, when you roll a natural 1 on a ranged attack roll made with this bonus, you automatically hit a random adjacent creature that threatens your intended target.
I'm gonna play a Warpriest Archer. Is this feat worth?
And how does it work exactly?
Do I get a +2 to attack for taking -1 AC? It seems SUPER advantageous in my mind, I'm basically gaining something for free considering I'm a ranged character.
The opponent has to be engaged in melee, and if you roll a 1, you hit your ally instead. Since Warpriest archers tend to hit very hard per arrow this is a big risk
Consider what happens if you roll 1 on your manyshot arrow at level 6
My own warpriest' manyshot is around 2d8+26 at L6
Is +2 to hit that happening 5% of the time? It depends a lot on who is your melee ally
It's more valuable on a Zen Archer who shoots more, lower damage arrows, and who can perfect shot if it really needs to not hit an ally
I see, I have no idea what I will be hitting at level 6, this is my intended build, never played an Archer before.
I couldn't find any other feats to use at that level.1 PBS - Weapon Focus (Class)
3 WP PS - RS
5 Deadly Aim
6 WP MS - FCB Weapon Specialization
7 Reckless Aim
9 WP Greater Weapon Focus - Clustered Shot
11 FREE
12 WP IPS - FBC Burrowing Shot
I thought that it meant ANY creature threatening the are, so I guess I assumed my own enemies counted as well for the "random creatures" since they're also threatening though they decide not to act on it
Do I get a +2 to attack for taking -1 AC? It seems SUPER advantageous in my mind, I'm basically gaining something for free considering I'm a ranged character.
Yes, you get +2 AB for -1 AC and this 5% backstab-your-ally chance. Let's compare it to baseline feats:
1) You can get a slightly situational +1 AB with a feat like Weapon Focus. For Reckless Aim the foe has to be engaged in melee, ok that's a bit more situational, but not much (in my opinion).
2) +1 AC is usually worth a feat, too. -1 AC hurts a ranged PC less, true, but you can still be targeted by archers, ray casters or brutes who break through. So I'd count it as -0.5 AC.
3) 5% is not much. Yes, it feels significant when it happens, but if you stay sober and calculate the average, it's not, on the long run. I'd simplify the damage to an ally as a bit of 'negative damage'. Maybe a penalty of half a feat?
So with some simplications you get:
+2 feats worth of AB
-0.5 feats worth of AC penalty
-0.5 feats worth of hurting an ally
= 1 feat worth
To me, it feels in line with other, normal feats. Take it, if you need the AB (you often do with lower level archers, I guess), but it's not a game changer.
Do I get a +2 to attack for taking -1 AC? It seems SUPER advantageous in my mind, I'm basically gaining something for free considering I'm a ranged character.Yes, you get +2 AB for -1 AC and this 5% backstab-your-ally chance. Let's compare it to baseline feats:
1) You can get a slightly situational +1 AB with a feat like Weapon Focus. For Reckless Aim the foe has to be engaged in melee, ok that's a bit more situational, but not much (in my opinion).
2) +1 AC is usually worth a feat, too. -1 AC hurts a ranged PC less, true, but you can still be targeted by archers, ray casters or brutes who break through. So I'd count it as -0.5 AC.
3) 5% is not much. Yes, it feels significant when it happens, but if you stay sober and calculate the average, it's not, on the long run. I'd simplify the damage to an ally as a bit of 'negative damage'. Maybe a penalty of half a feat?So with some simplications you get:
+2 feats worth of AB
-0.5 feats worth of AC penalty
-0.5 feats worth of hurting an ally
= 1 feat worthTo me, it feels in line with other, normal feats. Take it, if you need the AB (you often do with lower level archers, I guess), but it's not a game changer.
I'm guessing between Deadly Aim and Rapid shot it could be something that I need, that's why I was considering it.
I'm afraid my to hit won't be high enough.That 5% could end up killing someone, that is true
are you an arsenal chaplain and do you have the fate's favored trait? If so you have one if not the highest accuracy per arrow out of the classes. If you don't, then you just have a really good accuracy per arrow.
Yeah this was pathed out as an Arsenal Chaplain. While Arsenal Chaplain is basically a hindrance for the first 4 levels (Not getting to pick your blessing and only getting 1), for an archer it pays off in the end. You get extra hit/dam bonuses at 5 and 10, and you get to buy gloves of dueling which really helps your +hit/dam going forward from level 8 or so.
Effectively at level 10 you're ahead 4/4 hit/dam at level 10 for just 15k gold, have quicken blessing as a free feat (even if it's on a mediocre blessing), and all you lost is a channel energy you won't use much in combat, because your fervors are too rare anyway, a tiny amount of damage (1d8 vs 1d10 at level 10+ only), and a swift action to increase your AC which you won't be using, since you will be casting better buffs as swift actions.
At level 6:
Strength: +2
Divine Favor +3 (One extra from faiths favored)
Deadly Aim: +4 (You just hit 4 BAB)
Weapon Training: +1
+2 Weapon: +2
Point Blank Shot: +1=+13 damage per arrow. If you manyshot, the first attack roll is 2 arrows, so 2x (1d8+13) = 2d8+26
Manyshot at level 6 is far superior to Weapon Spec, it's essentially a whole extra attack.
The cheesy move to really put you over the top is Channel Vigor at level 7.
Haste, OR +4 to hit, OR +6 to Will or Fort. it's just zany.
It's from the Inner Sea Gods, and there is a spell "most usually associated with" Irori.
In PFS it's legal for everyone, outside of PFS, talk to your GM.Now don't worry too much about perfect feat selection, because archers are powerful in Pathfinder, and Warpriests are among the best archer classes. (Being able to heal (swiftly on self), use scrolls for (lesser) resto and circumstantial cleric spells, medium armor and dex for decent armor class are all very nice extra's on top of high damage output.
At level 6 I'm taking both, Manyshot and Weapon Specialization.
I was going Reckless Aim at level 7, but I'm not taking it, just in case.Now I'm left with a level 7 Feat open and I'm not sure what to take.
I was considering Skill Signature Heal, but I can't decide if it's worth the investment considering our party will be:
Paladin
Witch
Investigator Empiricist
Warpriest Archer Me
Here's something worth considering; the penalty of the feat involves randomly hitting an adjacent creature threatening your original target.
This need not be an ally.
According to the rules, a creature threatens all squares into which they can make a melee attack. They threaten their allies, they just typically choose not to make attacks of opportunities against them. So the chance always exists that on a natural 1, you hit a different enemy entirely.
This is especially relevant on the aforementioned Manyshot first attack, where, if you have the privilege of going early, you can aim at targets where the odds of backfiring into nearby targets acts to your benefit.
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There are other ways to reduce the risk for your allies:
- get allies with reach (reach weapons, enlarge and so on);
- get disposable allies, (low level summons), maybe even a swarm could work (diminutive creatures would be immune from your damage, the only problem is controlling them ).
Swarms don't threaten, and non-adjacent threatening creatures aren't in melee.
Swarms don't threaten, and non-adjacent threatening creatures aren't in melee.There are other ways to reduce the risk for your allies:
- get allies with reach (reach weapons, enlarge and so on);
- get disposable allies, (low level summons), maybe even a swarm could work (diminutive creatures would be immune from your damage, the only problem is controlling them ).
I decided to go against the feat mostly because I don't want to deal with people complaining I hit them LOL.
It could happen and well, we don't have a cleric, so Breath of Life is not an option, except for me at very high levels.Since I'm Arsenal chaplain I should be more than ok with to hit and I even took Finish the Fight which is a trait that gives +1 attack if you have injured someone in the last 24 for hours, which means is basically always on.
But it was my understanding that yeah, even enemies count for the 1, not just allies
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But it was my understanding that yeah, even enemies count for the 1, not just alliesSwarms don't threaten, and non-adjacent threatening creatures aren't in melee.There are other ways to reduce the risk for your allies:
- get allies with reach (reach weapons, enlarge and so on);
- get disposable allies, (low level summons), maybe even a swarm could work (diminutive creatures would be immune from your damage, the only problem is controlling them ).
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being attacked.)
Two creatures who are each other's allies are not in melee when standing adjacent to one another. If those two were also each adjacent to a mutual enemy and threatening it and being threatened, then they are in melee and could be randomly hit by a natural one with Reckless Aim. (Sleep dep makes me not 100% sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing and with which part of the statement, so I'm just going to lay everything out.)
Also, just to further rain on your parade, I think you might have parsed Finish the Fight wrong. You only gain the bonus to attack rolls on a given creature once you've wounded it, not if you've wounded someone else. It's neat, but it's not super useful for high AC enemies, since you still need to hit them first.
Two creatures who are each other's allies are not in melee when standing adjacent to one another. If those two were also each adjacent to a mutual enemy and threatening it and being threatened, then they are in melee and could be randomly hit by a natural one with Reckless Aim. (Sleep dep makes me not 100% sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing and with which part of the statement, so I'm just going to lay everything out.)
Also, just to further rain on your parade, I think you might have parsed Finish the Fight wrong. You only gain the bonus to attack rolls on a given creature once you've wounded it, not if you've wounded someone else. It's neat, but it's not super useful for high AC enemies, since you still need to hit them first.
Hm, I don't read it that way. I mean, yes, the feat says:
When you shoot or throw ranged weapons at an opponent engaged in meleebut the condition to apply the damage to them is not that they're engaged in melee, but that they threaten your intended target:
"you automatically hit a random adjacent creature that threatens your intended target".
You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally).
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Swarms don't threaten, and non-adjacent threatening creatures aren't in melee.There are other ways to reduce the risk for your allies:
- get allies with reach (reach weapons, enlarge and so on);
- get disposable allies, (low level summons), maybe even a swarm could work (diminutive creatures would be immune from your damage, the only problem is controlling them ).
While the part about swarm not threatening is ture, where you get the idea that a opponent with reach isn't in melee?
Just to cite the first piece against that that I have found:
Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn.
So your opinion is that people with reach attacks don't threaten as they aren't in melee?
Melee Attacks: With a normal melee weapon, you can strike any opponent within 5 feet. (Opponents within 5 feet are considered adjacent to you.) Some melee weapons have reach, as indicated in their descriptions. With a typical reach weapon, you can strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't strike adjacent foes (those within 5 feet).
You can make melee attacks, so you are in melee.
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being attacked.)
Thanks for giving me another citation that contradict your statement.