GREATER transformative weapon special materials


Rules Questions


Can a greater transformative weapon gain an appropriate material type? I've seen similar questions asked about transformative weapons and applying inappropriate materials from the original item to a new shape.

I am asking the opposite. If I put Greater Transformative onto a +3 longbow, can I change it into a +3 Adamantine battle axe?

Why/why not?


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The text is unclear in that regard. I'm inclined to say No just because I don't think 15,000 gp is nearly enough of a price for form-changing and material-changing.


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Greater transformation doesn't say you can change the material type. Descriptions generally only cover the things that can be done. That means material changes are not one of the things that can be changed, only negated if not applicable.


Greater Transformative wrote:

A greater transformative weapon becomes any other weapon the wielder desires when a command word is spoken. The weapon cannot become ammunition, but can freely change between simple, martial, exotic, light, one-handed, two-handed, melee, and ranged. The weapon retains all of its enhancement bonuses and weapon special abilities.

However, abilities prohibited by its current shape do not function. For example, a keen greater transformative weapon functions normally in the form of a piercing or slashing weapon, but cannot use the keen special ability when in the shape of a bludgeoning weapon. A double weapon that loses the double quality cannot use the abilities on one of its ends (wielder’s choice), whereas a non-double weapon that gains the double quality applies all its abilities to only one end. When unattended for 1 day, the weapon reverts to its true shape.

The first bolded part says it can change to any other weapon, the second bolded part explains precisely what the first bolded part is referring to.

If you make a weapon out of, for example, Adamantine, and then apply the Greater Transformative property to it, then when it is transformed to any other weapon, it is an Adamantine weapon. Keep in mind that you can even transform it into an Adamantine Shield, and convey properties that way. The same goes for other material types, though you would pay the cost for the original weapon type as normal.

Similarly, if you don't have it made out of Adamantine, you can't transform it into Adamantine because Adamantine is a material, not a weapon, and the ability references changing the weapon with a specific list, which Adamantine both does not fall under, and the references not once calling out a special material of any kind.

**EDIT** Also, consider the Double Weapon clauses. If you have an Adamantine Weapon, and then transform it into a Double Weapon, that means both ends are made out of Adamantine.

Similarly, if you don't have a weapon made out of Adamantine, and you wanted to try and transform it into Adamantine, the clauses would only permit one end to be Adamantine, and the other to not be of any special material (since all effects transfer to one end of the weapon) which means you're short-changing yourself more if you were a Double Weapon specialist with that interpretation, something I'm certain you weren't intending to have happen.


Eh. What i'm intending is a greater transformative concealed intelligent weapon. I find the idea of an item that can become most anything whenever it wants highly ammusing.

This interpretation is also in line with how concealed treats special materials. It can become any "non special" material, but only special materials that it already is. Shame, but fair.

Anyone know of a rules legal way to change a weapons material? Other than "sell it and make a new one" which I dislike for story reasons.


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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Greater Transformative wrote:

A greater transformative weapon becomes any other weapon the wielder desires when a command word is spoken. The weapon cannot become ammunition, but can freely change between simple, martial, exotic, light, one-handed, two-handed, melee, and ranged. The weapon retains all of its enhancement bonuses and weapon special abilities.

However, abilities prohibited by its current shape do not function. For example, a keen greater transformative weapon functions normally in the form of a piercing or slashing weapon, but cannot use the keen special ability when in the shape of a bludgeoning weapon. A double weapon that loses the double quality cannot use the abilities on one of its ends (wielder’s choice), whereas a non-double weapon that gains the double quality applies all its abilities to only one end. When unattended for 1 day, the weapon reverts to its true shape.

The first bolded part says it can change to any other weapon, the second bolded part explains precisely what the first bolded part is referring to.

If you make a weapon out of, for example, Adamantine, and then apply the Greater Transformative property to it, then when it is transformed to any other weapon, it is an Adamantine weapon. Keep in mind that you can even transform it into an Adamantine Shield, and convey properties that way. The same goes for other material types, though you would pay the cost for the original weapon type as normal.

Similarly, if you don't have it made out of Adamantine, you can't transform it into Adamantine because Adamantine is a material, not a weapon, and the ability references changing the weapon with a specific list, which Adamantine both does not fall under, and the references not once calling out a special material of any kind.

**EDIT** Also, consider the Double Weapon clauses. If you have an Adamantine Weapon, and then transform it into a Double Weapon, that means both ends are made out of Adamantine.

Similarly, if you don't have a weapon made out...

RAW it seems you're right since they only stated that

Quote:
However, abilities prohibited by its current shape do not function.

RAI I think they wanted to include the material as well as the abilities in this sentence... ;)


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
The text is unclear in that regard. I'm inclined to say No just because I don't think 15,000 gp is nearly enough of a price for form-changing and material-changing.

I found a precedence for the cost of material changing.

Quote:

MULTIMETAL MACE

Price 2,650 gp; Slot none; CL 6th; Weight 4 lbs.; Aura moderate transmutation; Scaling prize
This +1 light mace has bands of several different metals around its hilt, each band one inch thick. Once per day, the mace's owner can transform the mace into a different metal as a standard action. The multimetal mace remains that type of metal until transformed again. To begin with, it can transform to silver or back to steel. It retains all magical abilities when it transforms, along with any ongoing spells and effects currently affecting it.
8th Level: The multimetal mace can be transformed into cold iron.
10th Level: The multimetal mace can be transformed into adamantine.
12th Level: The multimetal mace is a +2 light mace.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Cost 11,405 gp
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, heart of the metal

It's one of those scaling weapons. The COST is calculated at the full strength of the item. 22200+305(Non magic Cost) for a +2 light mace that changes between steel, silver, cold iron, and adamantine.

8k for the +2 leaves us at 14200 for the ability to switch to one of the 3 basic materials.

So... yeah. Material changing is absolutely not included in the 15k for greater transformative.


"If you make a weapon out of, for example, Adamantine, and then apply the Greater Transformative property to it, then when it is transformed to any other weapon, it is an Adamantine weapon. Keep in mind that you can even transform it into an Adamantine Shield, and convey properties that way. The same goes for other material types, though you would pay the cost for the original weapon type as normal."

Add Anchoring to this for a truly awesome combo. Use trip weapon to knock npc prone, set weapon on top of prone person, activate Anchoring. Watch Loki try to lift Meow-meow.

More practical: Throw adamantine net, once it captures opponent activate Anchoring. HP for net is usually 5, Burst DC is usually 25, if recalculated for adamantine it should go up to: HP:20, DC:30 str check to make a burst check of DC:40(guess). Opponent is now entangled or worse.

All of this works best if your GT-A-***** is sentient. (Like your in a Mythic game and have Transformative familiar..)


Disturbed1Smurf wrote:

"If you make a weapon out of, for example, Adamantine, and then apply the Greater Transformative property to it, then when it is transformed to any other weapon, it is an Adamantine weapon. Keep in mind that you can even transform it into an Adamantine Shield, and convey properties that way. The same goes for other material types, though you would pay the cost for the original weapon type as normal."

Add Anchoring to this for a truly awesome combo. Use trip weapon to knock npc prone, set weapon on top of prone person, activate Anchoring. Watch Loki try to lift Meow-meow.

More practical: Throw adamantine net, once it captures opponent activate Anchoring. HP for net is usually 5, Burst DC is usually 25, if recalculated for adamantine it should go up to: HP:20, DC:30 str check to make a burst check of DC:40(guess). Opponent is now entangled or worse.

All of this works best if your GT-A-***** is sentient. (Like your in a Mythic game and have Transformative familiar..)

Bonus points to make the net Ghost Touch. Now that ghost literally cannot escape if it wanted to.

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