Shape Changing Avians


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Dark Archive

I'm looking for templates/options for either PCs or NPCs for an upcoming campaign, and can't find exactly what I'm looking for. I can find a Lycanthrope for mammals and Entothrope for insects, but can't find rebuild rules or a template for birds. Anyone know of something that would fit, or should I just attempt to use a modified lycanthrope version?


The basic Lycanthrope template is fine for use with avians (see the Werebat).


Bats aren't birds....they're mammals.

But yeah, you should be able to modify it for avian lycanthropes with fly speeds or not, just try and modify from that base.


Uh, why doesn't the lycanthrope template work out of the box? It works on any animal, not just mammals. There's a were-crocodile, for example.

The were-bat, atleast the one here, isn't strictly following the lycanthrope template since it has a fly speed in hybrid form. It should only gain the speeds of the base animal when in animal form.

There's also the better-written, though 3PP, monstrous lycanthrope template.


Lycanthrope Template wrote:
In hybrid or animal form it gains the special attacks, qualities, and abilities of the base animal.

I'm pretty sure Fly Speeds are usually considered a Special Quality (if innate) or a Special Ability (if accessed via some power, like supernatural flight), so...


GM Rednal wrote:
Lycanthrope Template wrote:
In hybrid or animal form it gains the special attacks, qualities, and abilities of the base animal.
I'm pretty sure Fly Speeds are usually considered a Special Quality (if innate) or a Special Ability (if accessed via some power, like supernatural flight), so...

Except we also have

Lycanthrope wrote:
Speed: Same as the base creature or base animal, depending on which form the lycanthrope is using. Hybrids use the base creature’s speed.

which clearly doesn't give you the animals speeds in hybrid form.

It would be weird if we had a fairly clear section relevant to the subject be superseded by an at first glance non-relevant section (the line you quote is found under the headline "special attacks") where you have to guess what's included. Not impossible, the template is as I said badly written, but definitely counter-intuitive.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There's a were-raptor (as in bird, not Sickle-toed proto-bird) in one of the Ironfang Invasion bestiaries.


Cole Deschain wrote:
There's a were-raptor (as in bird, not Sickle-toed proto-bird) in one of the Ironfang Invasion bestiaries.

AP115, trail of the hunted, page 88-89.

Blymurkla, from AP: WERERAPTOR (HYBRID FORM), Speed 30 ft., fly 80 ft. (average). So it seems fly speed is treated differently from other speeds.


or, as often happens, the authors or the AP didn't read the rules properly when adding new stuff, or did and chose to ignore them but didn't explain it was a special case


dharkus wrote:
or, as often happens, the authors or the AP didn't read the rules properly when adding new stuff, or did and chose to ignore them but didn't explain it was a special case

The only way I see that happening is if they took werebat and modified it into a wereraptor.

It seem pretty far fetched that they'd make the SAME mistake as 4 years before. For the same reason, it seems as unbelievable that they independently figured they'd ignore the rules. Also note that the werebat is in a hardback and under the scrutiny of the DEV's, so it's less likely to be a 4 year old mistake.

What it really boils down to is even if it's how you think, is they keep doing it, it's going to be a pattern and followed anyway. Also keep in mind, the game has unwritten rules the DEV's don't let us in on unless they bring it up in a FAQ. This could be one of them.


The Werecrocodile also has a swim speed in hybrid form, though curiously, the Wereshark does not.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Shape Changing Avians All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion