Enforcer Feat and Skill Unlock for Intimidate

[Smite Neutral]

Skill Unlocks

Enforcer

Say i have skill unlock for intimidate and 15 ranks. Whenever I demoralize the following might occur.

skill unlock wrote:

15 Ranks: If you exceed the DC to demoralize a target by at least 20, it is cowering for 1 round or panicked for 1d4 rounds (your choice) and frightened thereafter.* A Will save (DC = 10 + your number of ranks in Intimidate) negates the cowering, panicked, and frightened conditions, but the target is still shaken, even if it has the stalwart ability.

However,

skill unlock wrote:

An asterisk (*) indicates the total duration cannot exceed 1 round plus 1 round for every 5 by which you exceed the DC.

This is the normal duration of demoralize. But then enforcer is thrown in the mix.

enforcer wrote:

you can make an Intimidate check to demoralize your target as a free action. If you are successful, the target is shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt.

So I hit the target with nonlethal damage, demoralize them, beat the DC by exactly 20, they fail their save. I choose cowering instead of panicked. What happens?

A. They cower for 1 round, are frightened for 4 rounds, then are shaken for a number of rounds equal to damage dealt minus 5
B. They cower for 1 round, and are frightened for a number of rounds equal to damage dealt minus 1.
C. They cower for 1 round, and are frightened for 4.
D. They are shaken for a number of rounds equal to damage dealt.
E. Unclear, let GM decide
F. Something else

[Smite Neutral]

Assuming A, but would like others' opinions.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

I vote (A). The effects overlap (unproductively) for the first five rounds.

[Cavall]

The duration of the skill unlock is clear. If you wish to apply the skill unlock you would not be able to exceed that duration.

One gives an amount the other a maximum.

I would apply the first effect, the frightened and finally once the skill unlock ran out of it's cap, the shaken. I can see how c would be applied. Strictly speaking it's the one that would happen as choosing the skill unlock trumps the other choice. But I would throw in the rounds of shake for the remainder. So choice A.

Frankly it shouldn't matter after 5 rounds of pants crapping terror.

[Smite Neutral]

Out of curiosity, why would skill unlock trump the enforcer feat? I assumed they would overlap.

[Lady-J]

on a slightly unrelated note whats the feat that allows you to also apply str to intimidate?

[Smite Neutral]

That is intimidating prowess. That will save you a crapton of gp on intimidate-boosting items, and can let you beat the dc by 20 by itself. Theres also a trait that lets you apply int instead of cha

[Lady-J]

Smite Neutral wrote:

That is intimidating prowess. That will save you a crapton of gp on intimidate-boosting items, and can let you beat the dc by 20 by itself. Theres also a trait that lets you apply int instead of cha

well if it were int as well as cha i would do it but cha is my characters 2nd best stat(after str) so replacing would not be so good XD if i take intimidating prowess my intimidate will be horrifying which will fit the character perfectly gata remember to get enforcer too though that free action intimidate looks nice

edit nvm its only when you make a non lethal attack against something i'm looking for just a free action intimidate for when i go into rage

[Smite Neutral]

You want cornugon smash then. Don't worry about nonlethal. That is easily attainable. Blade of mercy trait if you can worship serenae, merciful special weapon quality, theres a social trait, gladiator something or other, that lets you do nonlethal as well. Nonlethal immunity exists, though. Also note that you can demoralize twice in one hit with both cornugon smash AND enforcer.

[Cavall]

Smite Neutral wrote:

Out of curiosity, why would skill unlock trump the enforcer feat? I assumed they would overlap.

As a GM I would think so. However it doesn't say stacks or overlaps simply that it allows X with a hard cap of Y for Z number of rounds. As I said strictly speaking, which is to say the most strict way to read that, that's how it goes.

But I still vote for A.

[Smite Neutral]

Hadn't thought of that interpretation. I'm still gonna go with A, as it seems to me that the enforcer feat is a separate effect from skill unlock, and would not be trumped or limited by skill unlock. Can anyone explain why they think that it would?

[zza ni]

if your looking for ways to increse the duration of your demoralization chceks look into equipment trick (cloak) it add 1d4 rounds to any demoralization check.

[Lady-J]

Smite Neutral wrote:

You want cornugon smash then. Don't worry about nonlethal. That is easily attainable. Blade of mercy trait if you can worship serenae, merciful special weapon quality, theres a social trait, gladiator something or other, that lets you do nonlethal as well. Nonlethal immunity exists, though. Also note that you can demoralize twice in one hit with both cornugon smash AND enforcer.

that doesn't solve the problem of still needing an attack roll, i just want to intimidate when i enter a rage and not really any other time in combat

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

zza ni wrote:

if your looking for ways to increse the duration of your demoralization chceks look into equipment trick (cloak) it add 1d4 rounds to any demoralization check.

Hmm, it's written in terms of "the demoralization" not "shaken condition." I think if you used the skill unlock to cause (say) 1 round of cowering and 4 rounds of fright, it would actually extend the frightened condition, not just tack on rounds of shaken. Pretty neat!