I just picked up Ace Trip, and my table is divided on how it works. Namely: when does the creature fall?
Relevant text:
the target falls at a rate of up to 100 feet per round ... until it hits the ground. Upon impact, it falls prone and takes falling damage ... A falling creature is considered entangled until it hits the ground, but it can attempt a Fly check at the start of its turn to stop falling before it hits the ground ... otherwise, it is unable to move (other than falling) but can act normally.
Let's say we've got a Roc flying at-or-less-than 100 feet off the ground above me. It's a tough throw, but I hit it with my Ace Trip.
- Does the Roc fall and hit the ground immediately (i.e. before it gets a chance at that Fly check)?- Or does the Roc begin to fall at the start of its turn (and thus get that Fly check)?
Basically, what we can't figure out is if this is designed to be a "one save" ability, or a "two save" ability. Giving the monster only one save (my CMB check) obviously makes it stronger for me. Giving the monster two saves (my CMB check + a Fly check) makes the feat a lot weaker.
Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!
The writing of the feat is a little sloppy.
The way it's written and the way the rest of the rules work it seems like the creature will fall immediately at least 100ft and only at the start of it's turn can it make the check not to fall anymore.
But I think this feat wasn't necessarily meant to work that way, because then it becomes really good as you score a successful hit and cause the creature to talk potentially large amounts of falling damage.
I think maybe the creature is supposed to get a chance to not fall immediately, but it's not written that way.
Thanks!
To make sure I'm looking at this from the right side, let's come at it from two different angles:
Let's say a cleric with hold monster prepped. I see a harpy flying overhead. On my turn, I cast my spell.
Does the harpy fall on *my* turn? Or wait until her turn to fall?
Another example, with slightly different timing:
Now I'm a wizard with antimagic prepped. I ready an action to cast it on any aerial intruders.
(I'm picking antimagic instead of dispel magic because a number of flight spells have special trigger clauses regarding dispel that I'm trying to avoid in this example.)
A sorcerer, benefiting from overland flight or some similar effect, zooms overhead, having used up only one move action, so his turn's not done yet. My readied action goes off though.
Does the sorcerer fall immediately (it's my readied action, so timing is weird), or does he fall starting on his own turn?
Just like a bullrush would move the opponent immediately,
so would Ace Trip.
But I think this feat wasn't necessarily meant to work that way, because then it becomes really good as you score a successful hit and cause the creature to talk potentially large amounts of falling damage.
The 'potentially large amounts' for a flying creature that isn't unconscious without getting a fly check before they take damage is a maximum of 5d6. Nice, but not anything I would call 'potentially large'.
Hold Monster is slightly different case because if the initial save is failed the creature is paralyzed but can attempt another save the next round to get rid of the effect.
If a flying creature is paralyzed (and requires wings for flight) it will fall after falling the save.
In my mind this is different from Ace Trip which seems like it's trying to give you a chance not to plummet from the ground, but the way it's written currently you would need to be over 100ft in the air for that to happen.
Antimagic is a very bad example since it's an emanation from the caster. However, if it weren't then what would happen is that the character would fall through the antimagic field, the magic would resume functioning, and then the rules don't mention what happen. I would allow some sort of fly check to catch yourself since your flying magic works as soon as you aren't in the antimagic field.
Just like a bullrush would move the opponent immediately,
so would Ace Trip.The 'potentially large amounts' for a flying creature that isn't unconscious without getting a fly check before they take damage is a maximum of 5d6. Nice, but not anything I would call 'potentially large'.But I think this feat wasn't necessarily meant to work that way, because then it becomes really good as you score a successful hit and cause the creature to talk potentially large amounts of falling damage.
Wouldn't it be 10d6 falling damage.
Let's say a cleric with hold monster prepped. I see a harpy flying overhead. On my turn, I cast my spell.Does the harpy fall on *my* turn? Or wait until her turn to fall?
Hold monster gives the paralyzed condition, paralyzed says: A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls.
So 'at the time' would be right then.
Now I'm a wizard with antimagic prepped. I ready an action to cast it on any aerial intruders.
(I'm picking antimagic instead of dispel magic because a number of flight spells have special trigger clauses regarding dispel that I'm trying to avoid in this example.)A sorcerer, benefiting from overland flight or some similar effect, zooms overhead, having used up only one move action, so his turn's not done yet. My readied action goes off though.
Does the sorcerer fall immediately (it's my readied action, so timing is weird), or does he fall starting on his own turn?
Anitmagic field is typically an emanation centered around you, so the effect isn't nearly as dramatic and unlikely to work with a readied action.
If you had some way to cast it at a distance, it would effect them immediately, but they would fall outside the field pretty quickly and then their magic would come back on. Unless you could actually cast it on them (not just centered on where they are which an Arcane Archer could manage) they aren't going to be taking any significant falling damage.
Wouldn't it be 10d6 falling damage.
Upon impact, it falls prone and takes falling damage (half the normal damage if it fell 100 feet per round;
Wouldn't it be 10d6 falling damage.Upon impact, it falls prone and takes falling damage (half the normal damage if it fell 100 feet per round;
Oh right! The feat says they only take half the normal damage if they fall at the slower rate. Well then... 5d6 (average of 18 hp) really isn't too bad. Mid level characters wont really care too much, they'll be much more worried about being on the ground I think.