Master of Falconry - What constitutes a bird of prey?


Rules Questions


I'm building a hunter with a roc companion and I was wondering if Master of Falconry would apply to the roc, seeing as it's a massive, hunting bird.

Shadow Lodge

Hm.

Master of Falconry Benefit wrote:
You improve your affinity with birds of prey, such as eagles, falcons, hawks, and owls. You gain a +2 bonus on Handle Animal checks made to train or control birds of prey. In addition, if you have a bird of prey as an animal companion, your animal companion gains one of the following bonuses chosen at the time this animal companion is gained: a +1 dodge bonus to AC, a +1 morale bonus on all attack rolls, or a +2 morale bonus on all Will saves.

By the usual definition, yes, the roc would be a bird of prey because it is a hunting bird - it's just an unusually large one.

However, I suspect the intent of the feat was to apply to animal companions that use the "Bird" stats, which are less powerful than the roc. If it could be used to boost an already very strong companion instead of just making up for a relatively weak one, then the feat would definitely be more useful - though I'm not sure that would make it overpowered since it's not a great feat to begin with.


Weirdo wrote:


By the usual definition, yes, the roc would be a bird of prey because it is a hunting bird - it's just an unusually large one.

However, I suspect the intent of the feat was to apply to animal companions that use the "Bird" stats, which are less powerful than the roc. If it could be used to boost an already very strong companion instead of just making up for a relatively weak one, then the feat would definitely be more useful - though I'm not sure that would make it overpowered since it's not a great feat to begin with.

I figured since the bonuses, while nice, aren't massive, it might apply.


Good grief! What size is your falconry gauntlet? ;)


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Gisher wrote:
Good grief! What size is your falconry gauntlet? ;)

To bring more lulz into this, I'm looking at my hunter being a halfling. With a glaive-guisarme. And the Death from Above feat.


I would definitely say a roc falls under a bird of prey. It is essentially just a giant eagle.


The fluff text leading into the Bestiary entry calls it an "immense raptor." "Raptor" is just a synonym for "bird of prey." Of course, it's only fluff text, but still.

Shadow Lodge

Bao Hadir wrote:
Weirdo wrote:


By the usual definition, yes, the roc would be a bird of prey because it is a hunting bird - it's just an unusually large one.

However, I suspect the intent of the feat was to apply to animal companions that use the "Bird" stats, which are less powerful than the roc. If it could be used to boost an already very strong companion instead of just making up for a relatively weak one, then the feat would definitely be more useful - though I'm not sure that would make it overpowered since it's not a great feat to begin with.

I figured since the bonuses, while nice, aren't massive, it might apply.

If I were the GM I'd allow it.

But I wouldn't be overly surprised if a GM disallowed it on grounds of being likely outside the original intent of the feat.

Probably safe to use in PFS because of the RAW standard?


But a roc is a bird of prey, and the examples given in the feat were not exhaustive. I'm not sure where this is could be disputed? Particularly since Fuzzy Wuzzy does point point out rocs are giant raptors, as described by their fluff text, which are a type of bird which are almost exclusively birds of prey.

Shadow Lodge

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It could be disputed because of Rule 0 and the possibility that it was not intended was not to include the roc.

Compare Huntmaster which also references "falcons" and clearly by RAW specifies the "bird" type of companion. The intent of the feat seems to be to boost the abilities of a set of mundane animal companions which are not particularly powerful and thus likely to be overlooked compared to wolves, tigers, and rocs.

Unlike Huntmaster, Master of Falconry is inclusive of rocs by RAW but the intent could easily be similar.


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here you go


Claxon wrote:
here you go

Not quite what I was looking for but hey if I can have it as my animal companion I will be ok with it.

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