Eldritch Zen Archer


Rules Questions


Say you're a level 2 magus, eldritch archer archetype.

Then you decide to take monk levels, Zen Archer archetype.

So you're magus 2, monk 1

You have spell combat and spell strike and flurry of bows.

You decide to cast chill touch, you gain an additional attack.

Then you do your full attack routine with flurry.

Do you now get 3 attacks at -4?
Is the bonus attack from Chill touch only at -2 because you haven't started your flurry yet?
Is it completely impossible because both these class features, spell combat and flurry are sort of based on TWF?

So disregarding any changes to attack from feats and ability scores and enchanted bows.

-1/-1 from flurry of blows and -2 from spell combat. So you'd be at 3 shots per round at -2 attack at level 3.


I do not think you can combine the two, because both are Full Attack Actions.

It's the same way a Monk cannot dual wield a pair of sai (monk weapons) and get +1 Attack for TWF and another +1 Attack from Flurry of Blows.


A level 6 fighter making two attacks is also a Full Attack action, but as part of spell combat, an 8 level magus can cast a spell and have 2 attacks.
If the monk is using a weapon in his hand, he is described to being able to choose whether he wants to use one weapon for both attacks or or weapon and fist or whatever.
So one hand being designated for the spell wouldn't be much of a problem...I think.
You might be right though.


Flurry and Spell Combat are both full round actions and cannot be combined. You have to choose either one or the other.


There is a difference between an ability that modifies a full attack, and an ability that works like a full attack. Both Spell Combat and Flurry fall into the latter case; they work like a full attack, but not modify a full attack.

This means that if you perform a full attack you do not gain the benefits of either Flurry or Spell Combat. You must specifically take the Flurry action or the Spell Combat action to gain their respective benefits. When used these abilities work like a full attack, except as otherwise specified. However, you cannot use both these abilities at the same time or otherwise combine them because they are different abilities. They just happen to work similarly.


I guess Saldiven was right. Thanks.


Follow up question, can an Eldritch Archer use Rapid Shot and Many shot with spell combat?


Yes, an Eldritch Archer could use Rapid Shot and Many Shot with Spell Combat just fine unlike a Zen Archer. Zen Archer would be a good dip for some early access to archery feats, but I would retrain those levels eventually.


Rapid Shot and Manyshot are abilities that modify full attacks. This is different from Flurry and Spell Combat which are actions that work like full attacks. Because Spell Combat works like a full attack, it inherits the modifications that these feats make to full attacks. So yes, an Eldritch Archer could use Rapid Shot and Manyshot with Spell Combat.

Remember, the key distinction here is that Flurry and Spell Combat do not change the way that full attacks work for your character. They are their own separate actions, and they happen to work like full attacks. Rapid Shot and Manyshot actually change the way that full attacks work, so they apply to anything else that references those rules.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Eldritch Zen Archer All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.