In game terms think of a shield as two different items in one: One is an AC item and one is a weapon. Each shield can be enchanted as each independently. When you are upgrading your shield you are either increasing the AC part of it or the weapon part of it. For instance you can have a shield that is enchanted for +5 AC while simultaneously having it enchanted as a +2 weapon. You pay the costs for each independently.
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Note this reply from the PDT:
No FAQ Required: As per this FAQ on effective size increases, two effective size increases do not stack. Shield spikes and bashing both grant effective size increases, so they do not stack. The extraneous mention of armor spikes in Ultimate Equipment’s spiked shield entry is in error, and it should be reflected in the next errata.
Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies. The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one. However, you can have one of each and they do work together (for example, enlarge person increasing your actual size to Large and a bashing shield increasing your shield’s effective size by two steps, for a total of 2d6 damage).
Note that it change a previous reply from the PDT about the klar and the stacking of shield spikes and the bashing enhancement, but the relevant FAQ text was changed, while the PDT reply in the thread wasn't.
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Both are enhancement bonus, but they are different enhancements.
You can put an enhancement on a shield as armor and increase the AC bonus or add armor properties (after adding the first +1 to AC), or you can put an enhancement on a spiked shield as a weapon and increase the to hit and damage bonus (or add weapon properties, after adding the first +1 to attack).
You track the enhancement separately both for the cost and the maximum quantity available.
Bashing is weird as it is a armor/shield enhancement that increase the shield usefulness as a weapon.
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Alright so I am making a backup character for an Iron Gods campaign.
The more I look at shields as a weapon the more i'm confused.I'm trying to figure out how to add Enhancement to Attack and Damage without Shield Master, as well as generally HOW to use them as a weapon.
The class I am using is Shield Champion Brawler.Shields do a bash attack, which has set damage. A Spike can upgrade the damage and turn the shield bash from Blunt to Piercing. A Shield enchanted adds Enhancement to AC ONLY if not used as a weapon. A Spike is...a weapon?? Can those be enchanted? if so when i attack, what happens to the enhancement? I know what it SAYS but its entirely confusing for me.
Yes i also found that thread on Shield Bashing with Spikes and the Bashing enchantment. still confusing.
plz help!
Shields can be enchanted as weapons separately from being enchanted as Armor items, and yes, you can enhance Shields with both sets simultaneously. However, you would pay for both enhancements separately (i.e. all of the Armor enhancements + all of the Weapon enhancements = the total cost/value of the shield). So, a +1 Bashing/+1 Agile Light Shield, for example, would be valued at ~12,000 gold, since you're taking a +2 Armor item (4,000) and adding it to the cost of a +2 Weapon item (8,000). This isn't factoring in base costs, Masterwork costs, material costs, and so on, which would add on to that total as well.
Shield Spikes are simply a template you add on to a shield that you craft. This is evidenced by the factor that it's a plus 10 Gold cost, and not a flat 10 Gold cost to be its own separate item to be enhanced, since applying the Shield Spikes to a Shield makes it a Spiked Shield, which is its own separate weapon (even if it is very similar to a standard Shield). Also, as Diego Rossi pointed out, Shield Spikes do not stack with Bashing, and the Devs wrote the Damage Dice FAQ with that in mind (despite people arguing otherwise).
Also note that Shield Spikes cannot be enchanted separately, despite people arguing otherwise based on the RAW regarding the Spiked Shield entries referring to Spiked Shields, and not Shield Spikes. The former is a conjoined item (Shield + Shield Spikes), the latter is a component for aforementioned conjoined item. They're not the same, they never were the same, so they should never be considered the same.
Alright. Well then. If I have a shield in one arm and use another as a weapon, do I retain Shield bonus to AC from the held shield?
You technically get both Shield benefits, but because of bonus stacking rules, you only get the higher of the two shield benefits (i.e. if a Shield grants +6 AC and another grants +7 AC, you get the +7 AC, and not +13 AC).
What is the point of the Shield Master feat if you can give a shield a weapon enhancement via spike?
That's the thing, you can't enhance Shield Spikes. They aren't weapons in and of themselves, and at best they are Improvised Weapons (which cannot be enhanced like typical weapons unless they're Masterwork, which very few non-weapon items can be). Heck, they aren't even individual items in and of themselves!
The point of the Shield Master feat is to A. Reduce Two-Weapon Fighting penalties (which they thankfully released a FAQ for), and B. Count Armor Enhancement Bonuses as Weapon Enhancement bonuses. So, a +5 (AC) Shield now counts as a +5 (Weapon) Shield, which is beyond huge, and can save a person quite a bit of money.
There's also the matter of min-maxing Enhancement benefits. For example, if I have a +5 (Armor)/+5 (Weapon) Defending/Guardian weapon, I can sacrifice the typical +5 Weapon Enhancement Bonus for even higher AC/Saves, and yet still benefit from it because my +5 (Armor) portion of the Shield still counts as a Weapon Enhancement Bonus (that would've otherwise not stacked with the +5 Weapon Enhancement that it typically has).
I don't see why they wouldn't. Those feats work whenever you employ the shield as a weapon, regardless of whatever class you are. I could be a Commoner with Improved Shield Bash, pick up a Light Shield, and gain the benefits of that feat, even if I'm not proficient with the weapon in question (and therefore take a -4 penalty on attack rolls and add the Armor Check Penalty it has to that attack roll for it).
The thing is that it has to be a qualifying weapon. For example, a weapon that has the Blocking property (which grants a Shield Bonus via Fighting Defensively) doesn't make it a shield. Generally speaking, it has to be an item from the Shield table.
So, Klars, Madus, Heavy Shields, Light Shields, Bucklers, Tower Shields, and so on, all benefit from shield feats unless they specify otherwise (some feats/abilities only work with specific types of shields, but those are always called out if that's the case, such as the Missile Shield feat).
Here's some other relevant information regarding such different types of shields:
Does a thrown shield cap out at -8 or -10 range penalty and why? Obviously this is taking into account Far Shot
Far Shot reduces range penalties by 50%; so, for every range increment beyond the first, it's a -1 for each additional range increment.
All throwing weapons, unless specified otherwise, have a limit of 5 range increments, before they're considered "ineffective". Projectile weapons (such as bows and crossbows) have a limit of 10 range increments instead.
So, factoring in Far Shot, a Throwing Shield's range caps out at 100 feet, with a -4 penalty to attacks.
No.
Distance states that it doubles the range increment of the weapon in question. So, if a +1 Throwing Shield has 20 feet range, applying Distance to the Throwing Shield makes it have 40 feet range instead.
Distance Thrower states that you reduce the penalty due to range increments by 2, something which happens after you reduce the original penalty via Far Shot. So, let's factor all of this in:
Distance makes your Throwing Shield have a 40 foot range increment. It's still a throwing weapon, so it has a maximum of 5 increments, meaning the maximum distance is now 200 feet. Far Shot reduces all of the range increment penalties from -2 to -1 per additional increment, meaning it can have a maximum of -4. Distance Thrower then reduces the final penalty by 2, to -2.
The end result would be a distance of 200 feet with only a -2 attack penalty at the maximum (with no penalties if the enemy is 120 feet or closer from your position).
To be fair though, that's an unusual amount of investment in regards to improving your ranged options. Maybe one or two of them, sure, but all three is overkill in my honest opinion; at least until the endgame.
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No it isn't. The Throwing Shield weapon entry has 20 feet.
The class feature "Throw Shield" lets you throw any shield not designed for throwing at a 10 foot range increment without penalty. If the shield in question has a greater range increment (such as an actual Throwing Shield), then you use that increment instead.