| PossibleCabbage |
So there's a two step process towards getting a panoply:
-First, you must have learned the implement schools that make up the panoply (Abjuration & Transmutation; Illusion & Enchantment; Conjuration & Abjuration; or Divination, Evocation, & Necromancy). Since you can choose what implement you cast with for each school, you can just declare that your abjuration implement is a shield or a holy symbol as needed.
-Secondly, you must have the ability to choose a new implement school, the Occultist gains one implements at level 1, one at level 2, and one every four levels thereafter. So for most you can get them as early as level 2, but for the Mage’s Paraphernalia you've got to wait for level 6. Instead of choosing a new implement school, you can choose a panoply.
For choosing a Panoply instead of the implement school, you get that Panoply's Resonant Power and Base Focus Power (just like learning a new implement school), you gain the ability to choose the Panoply's other focus powers, and you gain a spell at each level that can come from any of the implement schools that make up the panoply. So for example if you choose the Trappings of the Warrior panoply, for each spell level you choose an abjuration spell, a conjuration spell, and another spell that is either abjuration or conjuration (so for level 0 you will make that spell a conjuration spell, because there's only one level 0 abjuration spell on the Occultist's spell list, but your 3rd level 1 spell known can be from either abjuration or transmutation.)
| PossibleCabbage |
You have a limited number of implement schools: 5 for the vanilla occultist at level 10, 7 at level 20. There are eight schools of magic so every occultist lacks access to one, if you pick a panoply you're losing access to another. In practice, you're not so worried about level 20 as the low levels, but the effect is that a melee focused occultist whose first three implements are devoted to abjuration, transmutation, and the Trappings of the Warrior. But that means you have to wait until level 6 to get access to illusion, divination, conjuration, necromancy or whatever you want to have next. For the bulk of your career (up to level 10) you'll only be able to cast spells from 3 schools of magic.
So Panoplies are great, but they are a meaningful cost as well.
| Quentin Coldwater |
You have to hold all of the panoply items in order to take advantage of the resonant power or use any of the panoply's focus powers. If you have your shield strapped to your back, you are not holding it. Might work with a buckler though.
Not really, you have to "present" the item, not hold it:
Whenever an occultist casts a spell, he must have the corresponding implement in his possession and present the implement to the target or toward the area of effect.
I've asked this before because I was building a Tome Eater, and consensus was that he doesn't need to hold the book at all times to use his magic. People compared it to a divine focus or material components: things that usually aren't an action to grab and present. Otherwise the character wouldn't be able to use two-handed weapons and such. Some implements are more tricky to quick-draw, I agree, but I think the intent was that the items are readily available in-combat. I would count a shield strapped to your back as "presentable," you just turn around while drawing focus from it.
| Quentin Coldwater |
Also, note that you can switch out items each day, so you're not bound to your initial choice (Battle Hosts are an exception). The flavour is that it's an item that's important to you, but even there the rules say it's "often of historical/personal value," so it can be an absolutely mundane item. If flavourwise you picked your father's shield as your abjuration implement, if you're two-weapon fighting you can decide the next day to draw your powers from a brooch you've bought. This is a sort of safety valve to prevent Occultists from being boned when your item gets stolen/sundered. They're still more dependent on their items than a Wizard would be (a Wizard in a sauna would be completely fine, if you select spells without material components, but an Occultist has to carry his items with him at all times to cast spells or make a tough concentration check), but otherwise the implements are interchangeable.
| PossibleCabbage |
PossibleCabbage wrote:You have to hold all of the panoply items in order to take advantage of the resonant power or use any of the panoply's focus powers. If you have your shield strapped to your back, you are not holding it. Might work with a buckler though.Not really, you have to "present" the item, not hold it:
Whenever an occultist casts a spell, he must have the corresponding implement in his possession and present the implement to the target or toward the area of effect.
That's for casting spells. I was talking about using resonant or focus powers. From Psychic Anthology:
To use a panoply’s resonant power or any of its focus powers, the occultist must select and invest mental focus into the associated implements that day. A single bearer must hold all the panoply’s associated implements to gain the panoply’s resonant power
So if you're holding just a sword and not a shield, you can cast transmutation spells (by pointing your sword), but you're not going to get the resonant bonus from the panoply that puts you at pseudo-full BAB.
Since the Occultist is feat poor and wants to invest heavily in intelligence, you're probably not going to want to go 2WF anyway, so the biggest loss for "you've got to use a shield" is the difficulty in two-handing a weapon for bonus damage. For polearms you can use Shield Brace, but archers are SOL.
(FWIW I always thought the "present" clause was odd, since how do you point a sword at itself to cast lead blades on it?)
| Quentin Coldwater |
Ah, fair point, missed that. Yeah, that puts a damper on things. But Paizo has been weird before about holding, carrying, and presenting stuff. I recall a long thread about the difference between those terms not too long ago. The terms are pretty much used interchangeably, and I think that's the intent here as well. In this case, I'd rule in favour of what would make the most sense for the character. As you said, if you actually need to hold all those items in order for it to work, it would gimp a lot of builds. The very first definition (of many) on Merriam-Webster defines "to hold" as to have possession or ownership of or have at one's disposal. The implement is in my possession, not necessarily in my hands. I'd say that's good enough, but I understand if some GMs are more strict about this.
About presenting: I don't think it's much of "let me show you this cool sword I have," but more "have readily available." A Cleric's Channel Energy is often flavoured as you sticking it in the air and the energy coming from the symbol, but there's nothing in the rules about it, you just focus your power through it. I see it working similarly with mental focus. You can't conceal the use of it, but it's not a point and shoot interface.
| Hubbaman |
As you point out, it would be hard for the magic one to hold all the implements in her hands.
The sentence seems to me to indicate that if you lend one of your implements to someone else (like the shield to boost someones resistance) you no longer get the resonant power from the panoply.
If they wanted you to have the items in correct slots and/or in your hands, they would have written that.