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If I wanted to transform a hated foe into a gibbering mouther or some other hideous creature using polymorph any object, what would the result be?
The spell seems to allow for it, but no polymorph spell for turning people into aberrations exists in the rules (at least, not that I'm aware of), and even if there were, it's not cited in polymorph any object.
So what rules should govern the new form? How should polymorph forms without any precedence be adjudicated?
This one you created 5 years ago was marked as «no entry required» in the FAQ.
That's not quite the same question. It needed a simple Yes or No answer. This one is asking for specifics on adjudication and is designed specifically for FAQing (since some of the previous threads allegedly didn't get answers due to improper formatting).
In any case, lots of people have created threads asking this, or similar questions, about polymorph any object over the years. To date, Paizo has not answered any of them.
If the community agrees with me in wanting an answer, and continues to hit that FAQ button, then I am never going away until this gets answered.
There should be oficial rulings for these things, I guess. I am the GM and I can houserule what I want but some oficial clarification wouldn't be a bad thing.
I've had the same concern, and honestly wouldn't know how to run it as a GM.
Some guidance on the topic would be nice.
GM rulings are nice for corner cases, gray areas, and the like. However, when nobody really knows how a popular spell is supposed to work AS WRITTEN, than surely that's a good time for Paizo to step in with some official clarifications.
Otherwise, it's wasted page space as players and GMs alike will avoid using it like the plague because they don't know how it is supposed to be adjudicated (or else fear its possible abuse).
I refuse to believe that it was printed for the purpose of confusing tables everywhere or to waste space.
...I don't understand why these would be considered wasted space.
You don't consider rules that nobody knows how to use wasted space?
In my experience, it hasn't done either one.
Obviously, your experience is different.
I'm guessing that was either because your table hasn't played to the appropriate levels to have access to the spell, because one ever attempted to transform into something that didn't have a precedent spell (which the spell clearly allows), or because your GM made a quick, off-the-cuff ruling to keep the game moving.
In any case, house ruling away a problem at your table does not mean there isn't still a problem with the rules, and it does not magically fix it for everyone else.
I had to housrule things with this spell a few times as a GM, and even though nobody complained, some things are confusing.
Say somebody turns an inanimate object into a human.
My Witch wants to Slumber Hex this man, what happens?
Does he count as human so my hex works?
Does he count as a rock so... it doesn't have a creature type, so... who knows? Maybe it still counts as an object and I can only use spells and effects that can target objects.
The results are very different in each situation.
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hasn't played to the appropriate levels to have access to the spell, because one ever attempted to transform into something that didn't have a precedent spell (which the spell clearly allows), or because your GM made a quick, off-the-cuff ruling to keep the game moving.
I've mostly played and GM at the appropriate levels, I've had people use PaO to do quicky stuff like turn into Solar's, and I've mostly had GM make off-the-cuff and "next week I'll let you know" rulings.
So, I've never had an issue. Also, you can usually read a long post from James Jacobs with 20-30 answers to a spell like this. I know there is one for Simulacrum. I'd guess there is one for PaO also.
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This issue is because of the big change in polymorph spells from 3.5 to Pathfinder. As a house rule, I'd probably just use the 3.5 polymorph rule in this case. "The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities."
hasn't played to the appropriate levels to have access to the spell, because one ever attempted to transform into something that didn't have a precedent spell (which the spell clearly allows), or because your GM made a quick, off-the-cuff ruling to keep the game moving.I've mostly played and GM at the appropriate levels, I've had people use PaO to do quicky stuff like turn into Solar's, and I've mostly had GM make off-the-cuff and "next week I'll let you know" rulings.
So, I've never had an issue. Also, you can usually read a long post from James Jacobs with 20-30 answers to a spell like this. I know there is one for Simulacrum. I'd guess there is one for PaO also.
I was one of the people who pushed and pushed for some of those answers we got about simulacrum.
They won't do that, for the same reason they won't do it for Simulacrum or Wish.
They don't want to stomp on too many GM's toes. I see no trouble using PaO, Wish, and Simulacrum at every table I've used it and I don't understand why these would be considered wasted space.
I have the opposite experience. Those spells are all effectively banned from use (except for the explicit uses of Wish and PAO). You're not allowed to "get creative" with them because they break the game without more guidance.
I have the opposite experience. Those spells are all effectively banned from use (except for the explicit uses of Wish and PAO). You're not allowed to "get creative" with them because they break the game without more guidance.They won't do that, for the same reason they won't do it for Simulacrum or Wish.
They don't want to stomp on too many GM's toes. I see no trouble using PaO, Wish, and Simulacrum at every table I've used it and I don't understand why these would be considered wasted space.
This has been my experience as well with most GMs (either playing under them, or hearing them talk about the spells).
This has been my experience as well with most GMs (either playing under them, or hearing them talk about the spells).I have the opposite experience. Those spells are all effectively banned from use (except for the explicit uses of Wish and PAO). You're not allowed to "get creative" with them because they break the game without more guidance.They won't do that, for the same reason they won't do it for Simulacrum or Wish.
They don't want to stomp on too many GM's toes. I see no trouble using PaO, Wish, and Simulacrum at every table I've used it and I don't understand why these would be considered wasted space.
And understandably so. Those spells are broken if you let players dream up anything.