Hey all! I recently played Pathfinder at a local Con, got hooked up with a group of otherwise new players and we are getting ready to go by the end of this month. I'm even a society member, yay. I've been RPGing since THAC0 was a thing but it's been years, never played much 3.5, and this will be my first time campaigning in Pathfinder.
We are getting ready to play Crimson Throne and I'm going to play a wiz. I've been reading through Professor Q's Complete Guide which has been a big help. I've taken a shot at creating a level 1 char, outlined below, but I'm the kind of guy who likes to plan through lvl 20. I have a number of questions, but first I'd like some feedback on my build so far. Also, does anyone know a good Excel or other based tool I could use to create a character? Anyway, here's the build:
(Korvosa) Male Wizard 1
CG Medium Elf / Humanoid (Elf)
<<Init>> +11; <<Senses>> Perception +1, Low-light Vision
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DEFENSE
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<<AC>> 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 dex)
<<hp>> 8 (1d6+2)
<<Fort>> +1, <<Ref>> +3, <<Will>> +2
<<Defensive Abilities>> Elven Immunities
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OFFENSE
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<<Spd>> 30 ft/x5
<<Ranged>> Light Crossbow +3 (1d8) 19-20/x2
<<Special Attacks>> Summoner's Charm
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STATISTICS
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<<Str>> 7, <<Dex>> 16, <<Con>> 12, <<Int>> 20, <<Wis>> 11, <<Cha>> 7
<<BAB>> +0, <<CMB>> -2, <<CMD>> +11
<<Feats>> Improved Initiative, Run, Scribe Scroll
<<Skills>> Craft (alchemy) +9, Knowledge (arcana) +9, Knowledge (local) +9, Knowledge (nature) +9, Knowledge (planes) +9, Perception +1, Spellcraft +9 [Identify properties of magic items +11], Use Magic Device -1
<<SQ>> Elven Magic, Arcane Bond
<<MC>> Arcane School, Scribe Scroll, Spellbook, Wizard Bonus Languages, Wizard Cantrips, Wizard Spells
<<Traits>> Magical Lineage (Magic) (PFAPG 329), Reactionary (Combat)
<<Languages>> Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Orc
My familiar is a greensting scorpion. Any questions for feedback please feel free to ask. I haven't selected spells yet. I do plan on taking Improved Familiar around lvl 7 to get a Faerie Dragon. In fact I was thinking of not taking UMD because of the faerie dragon (and my CHA sucks).
If it's an AP the usual consensus is that you don't need 20 INT, you can easily go 18 and it's more than enough.
Right now I'm playing Runelords and my Wizard started with 17 INT, so it's not a big deal.
Regarding spells > Color Spray, Sleep or Grease. That's all you need for the first 3 levels and maybe a bit more. It all depends on your Opposition School.
I usually learn Mage Armor and put Shield on a scroll. Shield is situational and I don't usually cast it unless I need it.
WIS 11 is a shame, because you won't be using a stat point to get it to 12, maybe you could switch around something to get it to 10.
Improved Familiar is a great choice, but unless you really need it I don't recommend it. Wizards are already powerful with spells, having even more action economy just break the game even more in my opinion.
Having high initiative is good if you know what you're doing. Sometimes I don't if the enemy we're facing is worth a spell slot and I end up delaying because of that, so it's all up to preference.
Besides Magical lineage your build is cookie-butter Conjuration Teleportation Wizard, you can't really go wrong with it.
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I recommend bonded item over familiar, that gives you way more flexibility. An extra top level spell per day - of exactly what you need right now - is huge.
Why Run?
Magical Lineage spell is? possibly snapdragon fireworks? Though its a long term investment which pays off several levels from now. I prefer Focused Mind trait which pays off now - getting off a spell in combat is a lifesaver.
Isn't initiative 13? greensting + improved + dex + reactionary
Suggest this thread and this one
Since you're an Elf already, take the Spellbinder Archetype. You lose your bond (familiar or Item) which hurts a bit, but more than makes up for it by making you more of a spontaneous caster.
I went for a Blaster Wizard who specialized in Fireball. My traits were Wayang Spell Hunter and Magical Lineage (both Fireball). I also dipped Sorcerer for Crossblooded (Orc, Draconic). I also took Eldritch Heritage so I could get a Familiar back (Improved Familiar: Lyrakien Azata. which has a high CHA and can use wands with UMD, among other amazing things).
Now I'm going to be brutally honest with you, and this is coming from someone whose favorite class is Wizard: Sorcerer is better in every way. The ONLY time to take Wizard over Sorcerer is if you're only going to 5th level. As a wizard you're going to use all your resources trying to be more like a sorcerer: Preferred Spell, Spell Perfection, Split Slot, even the Spellbinder archetype. Want to be INT based? Be and INT based Sorcerer. It depresses me to say it, but it's true.
I'm glad I'm not doing something horribly wrong here, thanks. Thanks also for the mage armor and shield advice, and the other things you mentioned as well. I do want a high initiative, both for battlefield control and so I can have the option to delay. My opp schools are enchantment and necromancy, but I plan on researching necromancy anyway at lvl 9.
If it's an AP the usual consensus is that you don't need 20 INT, you can easily go 18 and it's more than enough.
Right now I'm playing Runelords and my Wizard started with 17 INT, so it's not a big deal.Regarding spells > Color Spray, Sleep or Grease. That's all you need for the first 3 levels and maybe a bit more. It all depends on your Opposition School.
I usually learn Mage Armor and put Shield on a scroll. Shield is situational and I don't usually cast it unless I need it.
WIS 11 is a shame, because you won't be using a stat point to get it to 12, maybe you could switch around something to get it to 10.
Improved Familiar is a great choice, but unless you really need it I don't recommend it. Wizards are already powerful with spells, having even more action economy just break the game even more in my opinion.
Having high initiative is good if you know what you're doing. Sometimes I don't if the enemy we're facing is worth a spell slot and I end up delaying because of that, so it's all up to preference.
Besides Magical lineage your build is cookie-butter Conjuration Teleportation Wizard, you can't really go wrong with it.
Thank you. I have thought about taking an Int of 18...I go back and forth on it. For Magical Lineage I'm taking Summon Monster IX, btw.
This is a pretty standard Conjuration wizard at level 1. There's really not a lot of variation you can do to it. You might find reducing your Int to 18 and distributing some of the rest into Con makes you more resilient. The Teleportation subschool is arguably stronger than the base Conjuration school if you care about that sort of thing. It's hardly required to be a good wizard, however.
The real meat of your build is going to be your spell selection. You'll also need to pick a spell for Magical Lineage. If you don't think you are ready to commit to single metamagic strategy this early, you could considering picking it up later via the Additional Traits feat. Level 5 is a good opportunity for that since you'll also get a bonus feat which can be the metamagic feat you plan to apply -- essentially bringing the combo online all at once.
Run comes automatically with Fleet-footed alternate racial trait. I'm not positive if I need it on top of my sub-school specialty, the biggest argument is more initiative.
Speaking of initiative, yeah shouldn't it be 13? Is something not stacking?
I recommend bonded item over familiar, that gives you way more flexibility. An extra top level spell per day - of exactly what you need right now - is huge.
Why Run?
Magical Lineage spell is? possibly snapdragon fireworks? Though its a long term investment which pays off several levels from now. I prefer Focused Mind trait which pays off now - getting off a spell in combat is a lifesaver.
Isn't initiative 13? greensting + improved + dex + reactionary
Suggest this thread and this one
Regarding SM IX: I have a fantasy of using an empower spell rod to empower the spell with Superior Summons and Spell Perfection for awesomeness later on. But you're right, it does leave a dead trait for most of my career, and we may not even make it up to the teens, level-wise. What would you suggest? I've already got reactionary, though I'm not sure if all of the initiative stuff I've taken is stacking correctly...
As for opposition research, the plan was for necromancy to gain Enervation.
J
Thank you. I have thought about taking an Int of 18...I go back and forth on it. For Magical Lineage I'm taking Summon Monster IX, btw.Why SM IX? That effectively leaves you with a dead trait for almost all of your career, and further, what metamagic do you intend to place on it? In general, the strategy for that trait is to take a spell in the level 2-4 range and trick it out with metamagic in some of the higher level slots.
You may not need opposition research at 9. I've found on my wizard that due to the size of the wizard/sorcerer spell list that there's no shortage of options when picking out my spells for the day. While it might be nice to grab an extra spell from a different school, there's usually a reasonable substitute elsewhere. It didn't seem worth the extra feat for me. Your mileage may vary.
If you're planning to actually summon a lot, definitely look into Versatile Summon Monster. It's very nice for adding some interesting variety to your non-planar summons, though it is some added bookkeeping so be careful about that so as not to bog down play.
Regarding SM IX: I have a fantasy of using an empower spell rod to empower the spell with Superior Summons and Spell Perfection for awesomeness later on. But you're right, it does leave a dead trait for most of my career, and we may not even make it up to the teens, level-wise. What would you suggest? I've already got reactionary, though I'm not sure if all of the initiative stuff I've taken is stacking correctly...
If you decided you personally wanted UMD (for casting Divine spells etc.), you could always go with Pragmatic Activator. (You had mentioned wanting your familiar to use wands, so if that's set in stone, ignore the suggestion).
Eldritch Delver I always thought was fun (if not the strongest trait) for a Conjurer.
Student of Philosophy can be pretty useful to make your Wizard a passable party face as well, since your Int mod is likely to be quite high.
Seeker is generically useful, and make Perception a class skill.
Or just keep the 'dead' trait -- the difference in power is unlikely to make or break you.
Most people take a 3rd level spell top with Magical Lineage to get all the Metamagic on it, and use it as much as possible.
You can potentially use it with Glitterdust and if you take Spell Focus Conjuration (which you have for Augment Summoning since you're a God Wizard).
Some people use Fireballs or Produce Flame or Aqueous Orb for Dazing Metamagic.
If you want to annoy your DM and be super useful, then take this Metamagic Feat
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/dazing-spell-metamagic/
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A few tips.
I would suggest reducing your Int to 19. 20 is rarely worth it at level 1 in my opinion. And then use the points on increasing either Dex/Con or Wis.
As it appears that crafting is something you use in your games I suggest getting Craft Wondrous item at some point.
And if you like the various cloud spells then consider either the Goz mask or the Fog cutting lenses (I personally prefer the mask).
Also depending on your group such a tactic could allow any ranged character to shoot at enemies in such a cloud while they are flat-footed.
(Another creative uses of this would be to go Arcane trickster using the Accomplished sneak attacker feat and a single rogue or another sneak attacking class level.)
Burning Disarm is a favorite of mine. Maybe not at 1st level but later on. If you take the sorcerer dip and Intensity Spell, 10d4+20 or a disarm isn't bad for a 2nd level spell.
A few tips.
I would suggest reducing your Int to 19. 20 is rarely worth it at level 1 in my opinion. And then use the points on increasing either Dex/Con or Wis.
As it appears that crafting is something you use in your games I suggest getting Craft Wondrous item at some point.
And if you like the various cloud spells then consider either the Goz mask or the Fog cutting lenses (I personally prefer the mask).
Also depending on your group such a tactic could allow any ranged character to shoot at enemies in such a cloud while they are flat-footed.
(Another creative uses of this would be to go Arcane trickster using the Accomplished sneak attacker feat and a single rogue or another sneak attacking class level.)
I am planning on taking CWI very early. I'm not sure why you'd say take my Int from 20 to 19? Sure I could use the points, but why 19 and not 18?
J
A few tips.
I would suggest reducing your Int to 19. 20 is rarely worth it at level 1 in my opinion. And then use the points on increasing either Dex/Con or Wis.
As it appears that crafting is something you use in your games I suggest getting Craft Wondrous item at some point.
And if you like the various cloud spells then consider either the Goz mask or the Fog cutting lenses (I personally prefer the mask).
Also depending on your group such a tactic could allow any ranged character to shoot at enemies in such a cloud while they are flat-footed.
(Another creative uses of this would be to go Arcane trickster using the Accomplished sneak attacker feat and a single rogue or another sneak attacking class level.)
I am planning on taking CWI very early. I'm not sure why you'd say take my Int from 20 to 19? Sure I could use the points, but why 19 and not 18?
J
I disagree with having a 19 in a one stat class like wizard. But the idea is that the cost between the two is rather large. You could drop your wisdom to 10 and bump con to 14 with the difference.
But as I stated earlier you have one stat your class needs to do what they needs to do. The rest is gravy so I say blast INT as high as possible and let your spells protect you.
Most people take a 3rd level spell top with Magical Lineage to get all the Metamagic on it, and use it as much as possible.
You can potentially use it with Glitterdust and if you take Spell Focus Conjuration (which you have for Augment Summoning since you're a God Wizard).
Some people use Fireballs or Produce Flame or Aqueous Orb for Dazing Metamagic.If you want to annoy your DM and be super useful, then take this Metamagic Feat
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/dazing-spell-metamagic/
Good point. In looking at 3rd lvl spells, Aqueous Orb is both hilarious and powerful, especially as a Dazing spell.
New question. As a Conj/Teleport specialist, I could take the Elf's alternate favored class bonus: basically for every even wizard level I'd use my school power an additional time. For me that would be Shift, and at level 1 I can already shift 8 times per day. Is it worth it to do more than that instead of taking extra HP?
If all books are open, swap out keen senses for Illustrious Urbanite (Spell focus Conjuration).
It's beautiful idea, but my DM wouldn't go for it.
There are a couple of things I'm wondering about.
I'm thinking I'd rather have a bonded object than a familiar...any thoughts? I don't mind the additional abilities, but I just don't know if I want it. Too complicated. Also the bonded object could grow with me without having to take an Improved Familiar feat. I'm thinking I also don't need to invest in UMD either.
Thinking of taking a ring as my object and putting Feather Fall on it. I could add different spells to it as I level up, and maybe ultimately have something equivalent to a Ring of Splendid Security. Interested in thoughts on familiar vs object.
J
There are a couple of things I'm wondering about.
I'm thinking I'd rather have a bonded object than a familiar...any thoughts? I don't mind the additional abilities, but I just don't know if I want it. Too complicated. Also the bonded object could grow with me without having to take an Improved Familiar feat. I'm thinking I also don't need to invest in UMD either.
Thinking of taking a ring as my object and putting Feather Fall on it. I could add different spells to it as I level up, and maybe ultimately have something equivalent to a Ring of Splendid Security. Interested in thoughts on familiar vs object.
J
I would suggest bonded item. The recall ability allows you to cast almost any spell from your spell book once a day. Both of my PFS wizards have this and it has saved someones life at least half a dozen times. Now the companion is strong too. I just like the versatility you get. If you chose not to prepare that one spell and bad things happen you now have it
The ability to enchant it is just gravy. I would avoid father fall as your bonded item could cast it the times you need it, just have it in your spell book. Invisibility is huge especially if you spam summon monsters. There are just so many better options
As for your favored class bonus to teleport. I would go with the HP. Your int is super high and 8+ times a day(since you will increase your int every chance you get) is usually more than enough.
Hp is better for you as a class bonus. You should be fairly close to max int so school power use should not be an issue. Meanwhile you have the smallest hd in the game and a racial penalty to con
Bonded Item Vs Familiar
Familiar is more powerful but more complicated. Think of it like chess or checkers. If you get to move 2 pieces per turn it is a huge advantage. At the same time running and advancing 2 people is a bit of work and can get complicated for even experienced players
Bonded Item is a good oh crap button and a decent money saver. Managing wizard's prepared casting can be tricky at best. This gives you that 1/day oh crap I don't have X. Great for new wizards. I would recommend looking at the Arcanist or Sorcerer class for a novice arcane caster. They are both easier to run. Arcanist is very similiar to wizard so you shouldn't have to change very much. As for the enchant I would recommend a different enchantment. Feather fall is super cheap as a scroll/wand and other items are much better.
Regarding SM IX: I have a fantasy of using an empower spell rod to empower the spell with Superior Summons and Spell Perfection for awesomeness later on. But you're right, it does leave a dead trait for most of my career, and we may not even make it up to the teens, level-wise. What would you suggest? I've already got reactionary, though I'm not sure if all of the initiative stuff I've taken is stacking correctly...
As for opposition research, the plan was for necromancy to gain Enervation.
J
Thank you. I have thought about taking an Int of 18...I go back and forth on it. For Magical Lineage I'm taking Summon Monster IX, btw.Why SM IX? That effectively leaves you with a dead trait for almost all of your career, and further, what metamagic do you intend to place on it? In general, the strategy for that trait is to take a spell in the level 2-4 range and trick it out with metamagic in some of the higher level slots.
You may not need opposition research at 9. I've found on my wizard that due to the size of the wizard/sorcerer spell list that there's no shortage of options when picking out my spells for the day. While it might be nice to grab an extra spell from a different school, there's usually a reasonable substitute elsewhere. It didn't seem worth the extra feat for me. Your mileage may vary.
If you're planning to actually summon a lot, definitely look into Versatile Summon Monster. It's very nice for adding some interesting variety to your non-planar summons, though it is some added bookkeeping so be careful about that so as not to bog down play.
even more so with an AP - just checked crimson throne - you're lvl 17 (required for summon M 9) for pretty much just the last combat of the AP - so approx 1 session
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A few tips.
I would suggest reducing your Int to 19. 20 is rarely worth it at level 1 in my opinion. And then use the points on increasing either Dex/Con or Wis.
I am planning on taking CWI very early. I'm not sure why you'd say take my Int from 20 to 19? Sure I could use the points, but why 19 and not 18?
J
Because with 19 you have four extra points you can put into your other stats. And that 19 will quickly become 20 at level 4. I generally never go 18(20) in a stat at the start. But each to their own. I just think the 4 points for increasing it by 1 point is too much.
Because with 19 you have four extra points you can put into your other stats. And that 19 will quickly become 20 at level 4. I generally never go 18(20) in a stat at the start. But each to their own. I just think the 4 points for increasing it by 1 point is too much.A few tips.
I would suggest reducing your Int to 19. 20 is rarely worth it at level 1 in my opinion. And then use the points on increasing either Dex/Con or Wis.
I am planning on taking CWI very early. I'm not sure why you'd say take my Int from 20 to 19? Sure I could use the points, but why 19 and not 18?
J
I like it. Crimson Throne doesn't really last much past 16th level anyway.