Hi! I'm brand new to Pathfinder (really, to all tabletop RPGs, although I am 2 weeks in to a new D&D campaign, but I digress), and would appreciate some advice in creating a character. Really, any advice you can give me about the game in general would be very much appreciated.
Specifically...
Even though I'm a brand new player, our GM has decided to drop me into a current campaign that she's running, where everyone is a level 6 character (playing with 3 very experienced players including the DM, and 2 other brand new players).
I've decided to go with a Gnome Bard. The biggest limitation for me right now is that the GM allows no arcane magic in the world (it's taboo and has been banished from the kingdom); so I can only use divine spells (back to this in a minute).
I have 36 skill points. What are the most important skills for a bard? My backstory revolves around having worked for a sideshow after being kidnapped by humans, being skilled in wind instruments (esp a flute) as well as oratory and acting, becoming a courtesan to make enough money to escape the sideshow, and running away one night with the clothes on my back and a little bit of gold in my pocket.
After skills, what are some good feats to have? There are so many to choose from that it makes my head spin.
Lastly, can the bard have any divine spells? I was under the impression that bards only have arcana, but please correct me if I'm wrong. What would be some useful spells in a non-magical world?
Thanks for your advice, and sorry if these are totally newb questions. I am a total newb, but love that I finally have the opportunity to play. Thank you!!
Bards have no divine spells. I would consider changing the character as spells is a large part of the bard character. Without spells, it's a weak class. Without arcane spells, don't play bard, sorcerer, wizard or arcanist.
There is a cleric archetype that gets bardic performance (evangelist from ultimate combat).
If you can't cast arcane spells, don't play a bard, there's no archetype that replaces it.
You can play an Evangelist cleric, you get Performance, but that's it, also you don't get that many skill points.
If you want to study quite a bit, I'd roll an Inquisitor. You get 6 skill points per level (as the bard) but are usually more combat oriented, able to apply buffs on yourself for more damage.
Regarding skills depends on your focus. DEX based usually go for Acrobatics, Stealth, Perception (always get Perception) and then it's up to you.
When creating a character think about this: what I want to be good at?
Chose 2 roles, primary and secondary, and work around that.
An inquisitor can be an excellent marksman, a bard too, but remember, considering your DM's setting bard is a bad choice from a mechanical point.
If you go Inquisitor Archer, feats that work are: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim.
For Melee: Weapon Focus, Power Attack, and then it's all about your choice. Furious Attack for example.
Reach combat: Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, high DEX, and threat more squares and at range.
I didn't even think about not playing a bard. I'll see if she will let me change classes at this point. Was really looking forward to it, but no arcane magic does make it pointless to be a bard. Thanks!
Since it's taboo to use arcane magic, I would advice against you using it. It will cause a lot of trouble, for everyone (and may ruin the fun in the game), if you try to get away with it. So you probably should just ignore the spell all together
With that said, the Bard has a lot of other things going for it as well (Bardic Performance isn't arcane magic, but you should probably clear that with the DM, just to make sure that it's okay). Granted, taking away the spells really hurts.
Skills:
-Perception: Most used skill in the game. I really don't see a reason not to invest in it. Max it out.
-Versatile Performance is very important to think about here, and you get 2 of them at level 6 - Perform (Acting) and Perform (Oratory) will replace Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise and Sense Motive. If you consider Perform (Wind) to be your primary performance, remember that it overlaps with Perform (Oratory)(which you don't want), so don't pick both of them. - Which ever two of them you choose, you should probably max out. You can definitely max out all three, if you want to (I invested in 6 different Perform skills on my Bard). Just be sure to pick which two you use with Versatile Performance wisely.
-Since it's a staple of the Bard to be the party face, the skills that you don't cover with Versatile Performance: Bluff, Diplomacy and Sense Motive being the most important, Intimidate, Disguise a bit less important. If they're already covered by Versatile Performance, don't bother.
-Since you're a Bard, you don't need to invest any skill-ranks in any Knowledge. If you want to be a bit better, though, you could invest 1 rank in each of the Knowledge skills, so that you get the class skill bonus.
-UMD (Use Magic Device) is a very useful skill, though it may be of less use to you, because of the setting you're in (there may not be that many magical devices to use, due to the arcane spell ban).
Other than that (and even then), it's all up to you and what you want your character to be good at. Stealth and Acrobatics are often very useful, though.
Feats:
-Lingering Performance is a killer of a feat for Bards.
-Deific Obedience (focusing on Shelyn as your deity, goddess of art and beauty, etc-etc) will give you a +4 to all Perform skill checks.
-Since arcane magic is banned, I'm guessing Arcane Strike isn't really an option either.
-Power Attack is a staple for anyone who wants to deal melee damage. But since you're a Gnome Bard, I'd probably advice against spending a feat on melee damage (you will never really be good at it anyway).
-Improved Initiative and Toughness are both solid feats, for any character.
EDIT: Well, I started way before I saw that you changed your mind about Bard.
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You could probably use the same backstory, but play a ranger instead. It is a versatile class, and you get spells, tons of skills, great attacking and even decent defenses.
Another thing to consider is what classes already exist in the campaign. Don't make a character who is going to steal another players thunder, or disrupt the group. This isn't to say that you can't be good at some of the same things as other characters, just keep in mind that some tasks are great to have many characters be capable in (such as ranged combat) while other tasks are kind of solo options (picking locks).
One final bit of advice might be controversial here, because there are so many great options, and some classes have improved versions - the version of the Rogue class presented in Pathfinder Unchained, for example. Stick to the Core Rule Book until you are more familiar with the rule set. It just keeps things simple to have everything in the same book, and not have a bunch of exceptions to everything. You have a long time to explore all the options and rules, don't feel you need to go over everything to make an effective character. Also, starting an unfamiliar game at level 6 is jumping into the deep end. Build for defenses and versatility, and don't worry about all the strange options. Keep it simple.
Fergie wrote: Also, starting an unfamiliar game at level 6 is jumping into the deep end. Build for defenses and versatility, and don't worry about all the strange options. Keep it simple. Yeah, I am a bit worried about this part. Our GM is great, she's very interested in helping new players learn the game so we can eventually build a new campaign, and the other players don't seem to mind having less experienced players finish the campaign the already started, so I'm hoping it will be okay. Thanks for the advice!
Rub-Eta wrote: With that said, the Bard has a lot of other things going for it as well (Bardic Performance isn't arcane magic, but you should probably clear that with the DM, just to make sure that it's okay). Granted, taking away the spells really hurts.
Skills:
-Perception: Most used skill in the game. I really don't see a reason not to invest in it. Max it out.
-Versatile Performance is very important to think about here, and you get 2 of them at level 6 - Perform (Acting) and Perform (Oratory) will replace Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise and Sense Motive. If you consider Perform (Wind) to be your primary performance, remember that it overlaps with Perform (Oratory)(which you don't want), so don't pick both of them. - Which ever two of them you choose, you should probably max out. You can definitely max out all three, if you want to (I invested in 6 different Perform skills on my Bard). Just be sure to pick which two you use with Versatile Performance wisely.
-Since it's a staple of the Bard to be the party face, the skills that you don't cover with Versatile Performance: Bluff, Diplomacy and Sense Motive being the most important, Intimidate, Disguise a bit less important. If they're already covered by Versatile Performance, don't bother.
-Since you're a Bard, you don't need to invest any skill-ranks in any Knowledge. If you want to be a bit better, though, you could invest 1 rank in each of the Knowledge skills, so that you get the class skill bonus.
-UMD (Use Magic Device) is a very useful skill, though it may be of less use to you, because of the setting you're in (there may not be that many magical devices to use, due to the arcane spell ban).
Other than that (and even then), it's all up to you and what you want your character to be good at. Stealth and...
I actually decided to stick with the bard! So, this is great advice; thank you! Our GM is down with just letting me use the divine spell list, which is pretty cool. So, I'm sticking with a bard, but it will be an interesting change. Thank you!
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Bards are good at making everyone else better, so don't be surprised if everyone else is better than you in combat--they're better BECAUSE of you.
Bards usually put their skills into social skills (Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate, Sense Motive, Perform), Knowledge skills (the various Knowledge skills, Linguistics, Spellcraft), trickery skills (Bluff, Disguise, Sleight of Hand, Stealth), or movement skills (Acrobatics, Climb, Stealth, Swim). There is a lot of overlap. Perception is the most used skill in the game. Use Magic Device is useful when trying to use magic items you are not familiar with.
Many bards have above average Dexterity, so they make competent archers. You might want to take Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and maybe Rapid Shot or Focused Shot or Deadly Aim.
You might want to take Weapon Finesse so you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier when you use certain light weapons, like daggers, short swords, and rapiers.
Improved Initiative might be useful; if you go first, you can use Inspire Courage on people before they go.
You might want to take Spell Focus in one or more in the schools of spells you plan on using a lot AND force enemies to make saving throws.
It might be useful to max out at least one knowledge skill, because bardic knowledge adds on to that so that you can really know a lot about that subject (and find weaknesses in monsters). Popular canadiates for this could be religion, planar, arcane or nature (for monster identification).
By divine spell list does your DM mean the cleric or druid spell list? Which one you have access to could shape the way your bard is built.
Find a copy of Gamemasters Guide or borrow one. While it is really for GMs, it has a lot for players too.
Particle_Man wrote: By divine spell list does your DM mean the cleric or druid spell list? Which one you have access to could shape the way your bard is built. I believe she's going to let me use the cleric spell list, since we have a cleric in the party. She's limited what races/classes we can choose from, and druid's not on the list.
A new player can make themselves very welcome by playing a support character. A Life oracle, for example.
Fire oracle might fill a niche, assuming their fire spells are all considered divine.
Investigator also works.
Ask about Alchemist as a Mad Bomber type.
But yes, the bard works really well. Good choice. Support and fun, both.
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