Eldritch Archer Clarification


Rules Questions


I am arguing with Lone Wolf Development about their implementation of the Eldritch Archer Archetype from Heroes of the Streets. My reading of Ranged Spell Combat and Ranged Spellstrike is that The Eldritch archer no longer gets the melee versions of these two abilities. Meaning they get no ability to do normal Magus Spell Combat and Normal Magus Spellstrike with a touch attack as a melee weapon. They are arguing that since the words include alter and modify that those two abilities remain. Can I get an official answer on whether the Eldritch Archer retains Melee Spell Combat and Spellstrike?


Ranged Spell Combat wrote:
Instead of a light or one-handed melee weapon, an eldritch archer must use a ranged weapon for spell combat.

Emphasis mine. Spell Combat does not function for the Eldritch Archer unless you are using a ranged weapon. I don't see how you could possibly construe this otherwise.

Ranged Spellstrike wrote:

At 2nd level, whenever an eldritch archer casts a spell that calls for a ranged attack, she can deliver the spell through a ranged weapon she wields as part of a ranged attack.

...
This ability alters spellstrike.

This one, however, is a bit more ambiguous. The Ranged Spellstrike ability alters rather than replaces the original spellstrike class feature, and does not explicitly say you can't make a melee spellstrike, so there's an argument that it retains that functionality from the vanilla Magus.

Given the context of the class, the RAI is probably that this is only meant to function with ranged weapons. However, it doesn't appear this was ever explicitly stated.


Dasrak wrote:
Ranged Spell Combat wrote:
Instead of a light or one-handed melee weapon, an eldritch archer must use a ranged weapon for spell combat.

Emphasis mine. Spell Combat does not function for the Eldritch Archer unless you are using a ranged weapon. I don't see how you could possibly construe this otherwise.

Ranged Spellstrike wrote:

At 2nd level, whenever an eldritch archer casts a spell that calls for a ranged attack, she can deliver the spell through a ranged weapon she wields as part of a ranged attack.

...
This ability alters spellstrike.

This one, however, is a bit more ambiguous. The Ranged Spellstrike ability alters rather than replaces the original spellstrike class feature, and does not explicitly say you can't make a melee spellstrike, so there's an argument that it retains that functionality from the vanilla Magus.

Given the context of the class, the RAI is probably that this is only meant to function with ranged weapons. However, it doesn't appear this was ever explicitly stated.

That's my argument on the first point is that it specifically says in the description that it MUST be a ranged weapon with spell combat.

And the second point is their argument, in that it doesn't specifically say that you don't get melee, but my reading is like yours, RAI is that their abilities only work ranged.


I think Dasrak has the right interpretation of the wording, however RAI is always difficult to guess. It may even have been intended that the Eldritch Archer can still use Spellstrike in melee as a sort of backup, similar to how the Zen Archer still gets Improved Unarmed Strike and its damage bonus rather than shifting every single melee-oriented class feature over to ranged attacks.


Athaleon wrote:
I think Dasrak has the right interpretation of the wording, however RAI is always difficult to guess. It may even have been intended that the Eldritch Archer can still use Spellstrike in melee as a sort of backup, similar to how the Zen Archer still gets Improved Unarmed Strike and its damage bonus rather than shifting every single melee-oriented class feature over to ranged attacks.

That's kind of why I'm hoping for some kind of official ruling from Paizo about this. Or as close to official as I can get. In my own games I would go RAI meaning no melee.

BUT, I guess I could see the argument that like the Myrmidarch getting ranged spell strike but not ranged spell combat, it could work similarly so that the eldritch archer gets melee spell strike but not melee spell combat.

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