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If you want to remove the knowledge of Druidic from your druid character, that's fine and dandy.
I wouldn't give you anything in return though.
After all, I'm perfectly okay with the idea that Nature itself teaches Druids, Druidic. That's why every Druid everywhere no matter what their ethnicity has this same language in common.
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hmm good point, but wouldn't nature teach you Sylvan instead?
No.. because Sylvan is the language of the forest.
The forest does not encompass the totality of nature... just a small part of it.
Arguably, a "natural Druid", that wouldn't necessarily have the chance to learn Druidic, should really be a spontaneous casting archetype.
I am not sure that there is such a thing as a natural druid. Most “natural” casters are spontaneous based casters, not prepared casters. A Hunter is about the closest thing to this in the game. Not every class has a “natural” equivalent.
Right now we don't have a "natural druid". Closest archetypes to this that I know of are Wild Child, which I had forgotten actually DOESN'T get Druidic as a free language, but is still a Wisdom-based prepared caster; and Feyspeaker, which is Charisma-based but still a prepared caster.
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I am not sure that there is such a thing as a natural druid.
I find this sentence very amusing.
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I understand what you meant by natural druid. Druids simply do not seem to be a good candidate for a self-taught class. First of all they are a prepared divine caster. Most “natural” classes are either not casters or spontaneous casters. Second they have a strict alignment restriction which also does not fit well with the idea of being self-taught. Third they are proficient with a specific set of weapons. Most self-taught classes are proficient in simple weapons. Finally and most importantly they have an EX-Druid section. When you can lose all class abilities besides weapon and armor proficiencies for prohibited behavior it does not really fit a self-taught class.
I understand what you meant by natural druid. Druids simply do not seem to be a good candidate for a self-taught class.
Well, the Feral Child archetype seems to be a self-taught version of a druid.
For what it's worth, I generally agree with you, but it's not my campaign....
What about not being exactly self-taught but rather a person who has a strong bond with nature and since childhood has learned from the creatures of the nature rather than from most traditional teachers?
There are a lot of intelligent natural creatures that could have taught him, and he could have learned a bit from this, a bit from that.
It makes me think a bit of Mowgli.
What about not being exactly self-taught but rather a person who has a strong bond with nature and since childhood has learned from the creatures of the nature rather than from most traditional teachers?
There are a lot of intelligent natural creatures that could have taught him, and he could have learned a bit from this, a bit from that.
It makes me think a bit of Mowgli.
That's the Wild Child brawler archetype, explicitly.
The question, of course, is how animals could teach capacities (like prepared spell casting) that they themselves don't have.
Animals could teach brawling, sure. They fight. Not so sure about teaching calculus.
The biggest problem I have with the idea of a self-taught druid is the Ex-Druid. When your abilities can be stripped away for not following the proper behavior those are granted abilities not learned. You can’t teach a person how to wild shape, or use or woodland stride, these are things that you simply do.
You could have a druid who was raised in a city and never even seen a jungle, but if he is 2nd level he can walk through the thickest undergrowth of a jungle without being slowed down. On the other hand I can be a 20th level barbarian who has never been outside his jungle, and has 20 ranks in survival and will be slowed down by the same undergrowth.
Also consider what happens when a druid changes to a forbidden alignment. My 20th level neutral good druid who for some reason changes to chaotic good loses all class abilities. That include extraordinary abilities like nature sense, wild empathy, woodland stride, trackless step resist natures lure as well as supernatural abilities and spells. So the bonus to knowledge nature and survival I got from Nature sense goes away. This makes it pretty obvious that these are not learned abilities. If the class abilities of the druid are not learned abilities than obviously they cannot be self-taught.
There have been a couple of threads about multiclassing and people having problems with suddenly gaining a bunch of abilities overnight. While that is a completely separate issue it does have some relevance to this thread. Gaining a bunch of abilities overnight makes more sense to a class where most of if not all its abilities are granted abilities. I could see where a druid gains all his class abilities after being consecrated to the service of nature. Maybe some sort of ceremony and then he suddenly is a druid. Different GM’s may have different ideas on how exactly you become a druid, but to me this makes sense.
As to the Feral Child archetype that one does seem to have a lot of self-taught abilities. But they have had some interaction with normal society or they would not speak normal languages. This would fit in with my idea on druids being consecrated. There is no reason a character raised by animals could not be consecrated to nature. Another druid would be likely to recognize the unusual nature of the character and want to recruit him to the service of nature.
Just to be clear (something The Golem didn't bother with), Feral Child and Wild Child are different archetypes. They aren't even the same class. Wild Child is a brawler, Feral C. is a druid.
What about not being exactly self-taught but rather a person who has a strong bond with nature and since childhood has learned from the creatures of the nature rather than from most traditional teachers?
There are a lot of intelligent natural creatures that could have taught him, and he could have learned a bit from this, a bit from that.
It makes me think a bit of Mowgli.That's the Wild Child brawler archetype, explicitly.
The question, of course, is how animals could teach capacities (like prepared spell casting) that they themselves don't have.
Animals could teach brawling, sure. They fight. Not so sure about teaching calculus.
I can see the confusion here because I mentioned Mowgli here.
By natural creatures I'm not meaning animals only, but other natural creatures that can be intelligent.
What about not being exactly self-taught but rather a person who has a strong bond with nature and since childhood has learned from the creatures of the nature rather than from most traditional teachers?
There are a lot of intelligent natural creatures that could have taught him, and he could have learned a bit from this, a bit from that.
It makes me think a bit of Mowgli.That's the Wild Child brawler archetype, explicitly.
The question, of course, is how animals could teach capacities (like prepared spell casting) that they themselves don't have.
Animals could teach brawling, sure. They fight. Not so sure about teaching calculus.
I can see the confusion here because I mentioned Mowgli here.
By natural creatures I'm not meaning animals only, but other natural creatures that can be intelligent.
Shrug. An "other natural creature" that could teach Druidic magic (including all the druid-specific extraordinary abilities and all the druidic taboos) would presumably have druid levels, i.e., be a druid. No one said you had to learn Druidic from a human, but a nymph with class levels in druid would still be a druid and therefore would teach Druidic.
If you are being taught by a natural creature you are still being taught. This would also explain how the first druids became druids. Maybe the first druids were trained by the fey. This would also work with my theory of being consecrated into the service of nature. The first human druid was granted his abilities by some fey creature and after that he was able to recruit other druids.
Good untaught backstories for a Druid:
- Chosen defender of some area from an unnatural incursion.
- Lived in the wild and picked up bits and pieces of natural magic from occasional fey.
- Received formal training in non-Druid magic (e.g. trained as a priest of Gozreh).
- Recently escaped from imprisonment in the First World, and still possesses some of its magic.
- Died and was brought back changed by slumbering magics, Solomon Grundy style.
- Just figured it out.
- Just knew how.
As for the Druid's code, that's a silly thing to quash the idea over. Respecting nature is obvious in the "don't bite the hand that feeds you" way. The alignment thing can either be an instinctual thing, a desire to emulate the balance of nature, a precondition of the backstory (somebody likely to shift over to a corner alignment wouldn't have been selected or it's required for worship of Gozreh), or a non-issue because the character just doesn't develop the extremes of a corner alignment. The metal armor thing can be instinctual, tied to any fey/First World backstory, a matter of personal comfort having grown up outside civilization, or learned through trial and error (since it doesn't require atonement).
Also, a druid is a divine class, so the «enlightened by a god of nature» might be another option, instead of taught by mortals. The restrictions of the class might be a divine imposition.
I aggree that «taught by natural creatures» is still being taught, but I never said a druid wouldn't need to be taught. I was only accounting different options from being taught by other druids.