1 Oracle / X Shaman (Spellcaster Controller Focus) - Build Advice

[Red Griffyn]

So I am trying to build a new PFS legal character for our group for a new person joining us. In our group we have a Swashtigator (Skill Monkey/MacGyver/Second Liner), a Wizard (Skill Monkey/Fire Evocation Focus), a Reach Cleric (Second Liner/Healer), and a Fighter (Front Liner/Intimidate). What we are sorely missing is some kind of Controller or ranged combatant. My initial suggestions for a Archer Oradin or Warpriest Archer did get any excitement, and the new person thought they would prefer a spellcaster. In the past in DND the role of buffer/controller/healer/flexible spellcaster appealed to them. With that in mind I have put together a Shaman build so they can play however they want and flexibly change their role. Ideally they will primarily be a controller, but on certain days they may use wandering spirit to pick up the Life Spirit for healing.

I've tried to set them up for success but I am not very knowledgeable with spell casters or spell lists. As such I've tried to build a character with the most flexible potential to grab spells through Arcane Enlightenment and the Human FCB. Let me know if you have any advice. Especially as it comes to what spells to select or the best wandering spirit.

Oracle 1 / Shaman X

Race
1 - Human (Dual Talented - +2 WIS/+2 CHA)

Traits
1 - Adopted (Bifurcated Magic - +1 CL to Oracle and Shaman to make up for the 1 level dip)
2 - Desperate Focus (+2 to concentration checks) or Reactionary (+2 to Initiative) or Wisdom in the Flesh (Fly?)

Stats (Level 1)
STR - 12
DEX - 7
CON - 12
INT - 14
WIS - 18 (16 + 2)
CHA - 16 (14 + 2)

Stats (Level 11)
STR - 12
DEX - 7
CON - 16 (12 + 4 Belt)
INT - 16 (14 + 2 Headband)
WIS - 22 (16 + 2 Race + 2 Headband + 2 Attribute Points)
CHA - 18 (14 + 2 Race + 2 Headband)

Mystery/Spirit (must match)
1 - Lore
2 - Familiar (Green Scorpion, +4 Initiative and Good Scouting, Protector Archetype of Shield Other/AC bump)

Revelation
1 - Sidestep Secret (CHA to AC and Reflex instead of DEX)

Curse
1 - Covetous (Adds UMD as a class skill, must spend 150GP on clothing or become a kleptomaniac). This is really more of a boon then a curse.

Feats
1 - Noble Scion, War (CHA to Initiative)
3 - Extra Hex (slumber)
5 - Extra Hex (Fortune)
7 - Spirit Talker (Always Select Arcane Enlightenment)
9 - Accursed Hex
11 - FEAT?

Hexes
3 - Arcane Enlightenment (Retrain at Level 7 to Evil Eye, Select with Spirit Talker)
3 - Slumber
5 - Chant
5 - Fortune
7 - Wandering Hex (If Slums Spirit then Ward of the City to up defense or City Spirit to mitigate bad dex)
9 - Secret (Persistent)

Wandering Spirit
1 - Slums? (not sure, but seems like it has a good spell list)
2 - Life (for times when healing is needed - get channel and life Link)
2 - Open to suggestions (I want a primary battlefield controller/buffer/debuffer)

Items
+2/+2/+2 Headband (Perception)
+4 CON Belt
+1 Storing Agile Mithral Breatplate (+7 AC, +4 of 5 from DEX/CHA)
Circlet of Persuasion (+3 to CHA checks like UMD and Initiative from Noble Scion)
+1 Storing Darkwood Heavy Wooden Shield (+3 AC)
Handy Haversack
Metamagic Rods (Quickened, Rime, Piercing - Anything Else?)
AoNA (+2 AC)
RoP (+2 AC)
Ioun Stone - Dusty Rose
Cloak of Resistance (+2 or +3)
Eyes of the Eagle (+5 on Perception Checks)

Pros of Build:
1 - 3 or 4 Flexible Spells off the Wizard/Sorcerer List per day (can change daily with Arcane Enlightenment and Spirit Talker). Note I retrain this at level 7 when I can use wandering spirit or Spirit Talker. 1 Spell per Shaman level using the Human FCB from the Cleric Divine List. Pretty much I'll have the ability to grab anything I want.
2 - Use of Chant/Evil Eye with Control Spells or Chant/Fortune/Hex Weakness to buff party.
3 - Selection of Slumber to have an always control spell.
4 - CHA is almost completely swapped for DEX (CHA to AC/Reflex/Initiative from Oracle Mystery/1st Level Feat). This makes it possible to dump dex and pump CHA to remove MAD issue.
5 - A lot of Class skills (Dip/UMD/All Knowledge/Others) and a high enough WIS/INT/CHA to pull them off. Enough Skill points to do well.
6 - Enough Strength to sit in the armour identified above and have fairly competitive AC (I'd like to try to stay light encumbered to keep full CHA to AC).
7 - Great Initiative from CHA/Circlet of Persuasion/Familiar.
8 - Some Survivability from Protector Archetype Familiar (including ability to aid another on me even if he doesn't threaten them).
9 - Flexible wandering spirit in case the new person doesn't like certain mysteries
10 - Familiar gets a boost to stealth from Lore Spirit to improve it's scouting ability.

Cons:
1 - No Melee potential
2 - Bad Dex/Str Physical Skill abilities (spells should compensate for this though)
3 - 1 Level lost to Oracle dip (but getting CHA to reflex/AC shores up a bad save, bad AC, and gives more spontaneous spells from the oracle list).
4 - Bad Fortitude Save (potentially mitigated with Belt and Slum Wandering Hex)

Possible Changes:
1 - Getting a +2 Wis/+2 CHA is really nice for this build, but if CHA is lower, it would allow an extra feat (human) or picking up Orc/Half Elf for other racial benefits. As it stands I think it is better the way I put it up there.
2 - Item suggestions? I think I got the basics, but there is more gold to spend and I don't know if there are any Shaman specific items.
3 - If there was some way to avoid having my Mystery/Spirit be the same I'd love it!
4 - Ideally I'd be able to get a +4/+4 Headband for WIS/CHA and get a +2 INT ioun stone. I just think it is not very reasonable to get this online.

[MrWixi]

I have nothing to add, but will be following this thread with interest, as this is very close to an idea i had brewing in my head for my next character!

[Louise Bishop]

Another Option out there is the Spirit Guide Oracle. I start with a 13-14 INT.

The current Build I am working on is for the Lore Mystery for Side step, Mental Acuity (to boost INT to 19 for 9th level spells), and @ 11 grab Arcane Archivist.

Then with the Wandering Spirit I would grab the spirit I needed for the day. But of Course I can easily grab the Lore Spirit and the Arcane Enlightenment Hex. This means Every time I regrab the Lore spirit I can Choose the spells that I know. Being a full CHA caster I can grab MORE choice spells (Usually 5-8 spells) as my need changes.

I do not play PFS so I take Scribe Scroll so I can make scrolls of those Choice Arcane spells (That are now Divine) and I make scrolls in my off days as well as reapply Contingency or add any Permanency effect I want.

By 20th Level your better off than any Mystic Theurge could ever hope to be. Able to cast Wish and Limited Wish as an SLA and Pick new spells every day based on need. Using CHA to just about everything of Importance as well.

[Red Griffyn]

Louise Bishop wrote:

Another Option out there is the Spirit Guide Oracle. I start with a 13-14 INT.

The current Build I am working on is for the Lore Mystery for Side step, Mental Acuity (to boost INT to 19 for 9th level spells), and @ 11 grab Arcane Archivist.

Then with the Wandering Spirit I would grab the spirit I needed for the day. But of Course I can easily grab the Lore Spirit and the Arcane Enlightenment Hex. This means Every time I regrab the Lore spirit I can Choose the spells that I know. Being a full CHA caster I can grab MORE choice spells (Usually 5-8 spells) as my need changes.

I do not play PFS so I take Scribe Scroll so I can make scrolls of those Choice Arcane spells (That are now Divine) and I make scrolls in my off days as well as reapply Contingency or add any Permanency effect I want.

By 20th Level your better off than any Mystic Theurge could ever hope to be. Able to cast Wish and Limited Wish as an SLA and Pick new spells every day based on need. Using CHA to just about everything of Importance as well.

While I agree the Spirit Guide Oracle has a lot to offer, for a control specialist it doesn't provide much in the way of spells on the Oracle spell list. The Lore Spirit, via wandering spirit from the control Oracle archetype does not add any spells to the list of things you can cast. That is because the Lore spirit only adds to the list of spells you can prepare (Shaman is a prepared caster). As an Oracle you are a spontaneous caster and cannot prepare spells, so they don't actually add to your list of spells known or class spell list for the purposes of learning them. Outside of PFS you could houserule that, but in PFS you are sort of stuck with it. As well, the Lore Mystery Arcane Archivist can't be taken until level 11, at which point in PFS your character retires.

I have a Spirit Guide Oracle/Sorcerer Kitsune who is going full Nine-tails and enchantment focus and I was sad to find out that I couldn't use the Lore Spirit, via wandering spirit. But I took the Lunar Mystery, picked up an Animal Companion and an equivalent revelation to Sidestep Secret (Prophetic Armour?) to remove my Dex dependency to pump CHA on that build. My wandering hex is then Ancestor so I can get the Wisdom of Ages which replaces CHA with INT on all INT based skill checks.

[Red Griffyn]

Self Bump - Is there any additional input on this build? It's going to go live shortly. Someone else on Reddit said I could possibly go Unsworn Shaman archetype to get more hexes in the PFS levels. Someone also said that Spirit Talker no longer works for Arcane Enlightenment (seems strange to me, why would a prepared spell go away after you prepared it?).

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Spirit Talker mostly doesn't work with Arcane Enlightenment. Even if you have the spells prepared, you can't actually cast them if they're no longer on your class spell list.

You *can* leave open slots, use Spirit Talker, take 15 minutes to prepare spells in those slots, and then have 45 minutes to cast them. I've done this with Hour/level spells like Darkvision a few times.

Here's the FAQ.
And the relevant line:
"The spell slots of a class can only be used to cast spells that appear on the spell list of that class."

There's a clearer callout somewhere where Mark explains it, but my google fu is failing.

[Red Griffyn]

I guess you could also use it to cast spells into spell storing items, but I agree that limits it's usefulness of the feat. Is there still a good hex to use with this feat because it looks like the feat just isn't worth the slot vs. grabbing "extra hex" and getting something permanent.

Do you guys think it makes sense to build towards the life spirit for life link/channels (I have the CHA for it) and retrain into lore into life at level 6 or do you think its better to embrace control spells and go towards slums. Slums looks more like it has a better spell list and the spirit ability is a fun limited teleport. I assume I need lore as my wandering spirit unfortunately to keep the main basis of the build. A downside to going life is with a 12 CON I won't have too much HP to give, but a protector archetype familiar should help with that and a CON belt as well (should have more AC then most so getting hit shouldn't be a big issue for me).

To be fair, if it was me and they weren't stuck with two skill monkeys already I'd seriously consider making my main spirit Lore and getting the hex for WIS to all INT skill checks because you never know what your party composition will be in PFS. Its probably fair to assume I'm going to grab the same control spells from the wizard list every day (color spray, glitter dust, web) and replace color spray and web with higher level spells (e.g., black tentacles) when I'd have access to them.

[Grandlounge]

Shamans make good healers. Shield other, life link, protector familiar and channel work very well together. It's a decent plan b but never optimal. I really life fateful channel on this build as it make using a standard to heal much better. Though it is locked to pharasma.

[Red Griffyn]

Grandlounge wrote:

Shamans make good healers. Shield other, life link, protector familiar and channel work very well together. It's a decent plan b but never optimal. I really life fateful channel on this build as it make using a standard to heal much better. Though it is locked to pharasma.

That sounds interesting to me. I would definitely swap Spirit Talker with Fateful Channel or push accursed hex to level 7 and take a channel feat at level 9. I would obviously need to swap the Level 3 hex to life link. I quickly looked over the channelling feats and I also saw Beacon of Hope (worship Milani). Do you think getting the reroll is better than basically +2 to lots of things (i.e., heroism) for 1+CHA rounds? If I am doing this do you think it makes sense to swap the fortune hex to evil eye? Otherwise my chanting will be of limited use until level 9 for accursed hex.

I think the feat/hex progression might look like this in the end if I drop Chant/Evil Eye/Fortune:

Feats
1 - Noble Scion, War (CHA to Initiative)
3 - Extra Hex (slumber)
5 - Fateful Channel
7 - Accursed Hex or Selective Channel or Extra Channel or Metamagic
9 - Selective Channel or Extra Channel or Metamagic
11 - Selective Channel or Extra Channel or Metamagic

Hexes
3 - Arcane Enlightenment (Retrain at Level 7 to Life Link, Select with Wandering Spirit)
3 - Slumber
5 - Secret (Persistent)
7 - Wandering Hex (Arcane Enlightenment form Lore)
9 - Healing or PFS swap to Spell Focus (Conjuration for control spells?)

If the class has a lay on hands pool or second channel pool I might even take out the extra +2 to CHA from human racial trait and take Fey Foundling instead with the extra feat. But I think that loosing another channel isn't worth the extra healing per die. We do have a reach cleric in the group, so I'm not too worried about healing. But it would be nice to have life link on the investigator/fighter. I guess you would also add in Boots of Earth and really try for the +4/+4 WIS/CHA headband if possible. With boots of the earth and a protector familiar with fast healing 1, literally we get out of combat free healing for everyone in the party.

I guess you could go with the witch doctor archetype as well for an extra channel pool lose out on extra hexes to embrace the full channel living. A complete focus on channeling starts making the character look like less of a witch and far more of a poor man's oradin (a pooradin?).

[Grandlounge]

I will go though and come up with some recommendations a little later. But boost of the earth got errata-ed.

The full version of the Healer build is a witch doctor. Dual cursed oracle 1 (life/dual cursed) shaman x (witch doctor/life). The idea of the build is that you can soak a ton of damage with shield other and the protector familiar and mitigate much more with the two misfortunes. I actually think it's a comparable build as it has better casting, damage mitigation/debuffing, tons of channels.

Your build will be half way in between. For these types of builds I crank Con so you will be limited in how much healing you can provide. Maybe just use Shield Other and channels for a late fight heal, buff and to stabilise people. Keeping you focus on debuffing and control.

[Red Griffyn]

Grandlounge wrote:

I will go though and come up with some recommendations a little later. But boost of the earth got errata-ed...

That is like the 6th errata'd item that has effected a character build idea or ongoing character in the last month. Paizo won't let us keep nice things.

[Grandlounge]

I should be fair that last one is just not a true errata it's just a change for PFS. Now I just stay away from things that are to good. If they seem over powered I ignore them because they are likely targets for an errata. PFS, for the most part, is not unfairly difficult, and there are plenty of ways to optimise. What I don't want to happen is to lose 5 things in one build and have to pay for an extensive rebuild.

[Red Griffyn]

Grandlounge wrote:

I should be fair that last one is just not a true errata it's just a change for PFS. Now I just stay away from things that are to good. If they seem over powered I ignore them because they are likely targets for an errata. PFS, for the most part, is not unfairly difficult, and there are plenty of ways to optimise. What I don't want to happen is to lose 5 things in one build and have to pay for an extensive rebuild.

Well you get to retrain effected feats/items for free if they change them after you take them. I just think it'd be nice if not everyone was carrying the same equipment because they are the only things reliably not to get nerfed. Or if you finally open up a feat to close a hole in gameplay (e.g., Potion Glutton) why you would instead of providing a FAQ on the issue people had with it (in this case does it apply to extracts) nerf it into the ground (change the action economy of it as well as limiting it).

There was the Jingsa +1 luck bonus, Potion Glutton, Spirit Talker, Hex Vulnerability Spell, Shaman Evil Eye Hex, Spirit Guide (lore spirit prepared vs. known spells), etc. The list goes on and on about the nice things people can't have. The boots weren't super overpowered, but they were perhaps underpriced or the ring of regeneration highly overpriced.