Brawler level count as Fighter levels for Feats
Use Magic Device allows you to emulate class features to use items
Gloves of Dueling give +2 Weapon Training
I've seen it said in other threads that you can use UMD to gain the benefit of Gloves of Dueling for 1 hour. What weapon group would this apply to? (Pick one when you make the check, pick 2 groups if you hit 29, etc?)
Additionally, if using UMD to emulate weapon training to gain the use of the gloves, and possessing 5 levels of Brawler, could you then use martial flexibility to gain the Advanced Weapon Training feat for 1 minute?
You cant UMD gloves of dueling, so no to everything.
Calth wrote: You cant UMD gloves of dueling, so no to everything. Was this every clarified at some point? In an older thread, most everyone seemed to agree that you could, hence my confusion.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mjw4?Use-Magic-Device-Emulate-a-Class-Feature- What#4
Well, they were wrong. UMD never gives you class features, so items that improve class features that you don't have don't work with UMD.
UMD wrote: Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above). Dueling Gloves wrote: These supple leather gloves grant the wearer gains a +4 bonus to his CMD against disarm attacks, attempts to sunder his wielded weapons, and effects that cause him to lose his grip on his weapons (such as grease). The wearer doesn't drop held weapons when panicked or stunned. If the wearer has the weapon training class feature and is using an appropriate weapon, his weapon training bonus increases by +2. So yeah, your "I don't actually have that feature/bonus" increases, but "undefined +2" is still undefined.
Has anyone ever found an actual use for that ability, then? Not hypothetical, an actual item that Emulation of Class Feature allows you to actually benifit from in a useful manner?
(Assuming you also ascribe to the "cannot emulate class level, only features" stance.)
it used to work for oracles and the revelation ring
Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
The Beads of Karma and Summoning on a Strand of Prayer Beads require the ability to cast divine spells. As far as I know, you can use the Use Magic Device skill to ignore that requirement and activate the relevant bead anyway.
Robes of the archmagi are similar, only work for arcane spellcasters, which can be UMD via class feature roll.
I think Talisman of Pure Good/Ultimate Evil should be usable with UMD, too.
Doors that require a channeled to activate them I think was the standard example.
Calth wrote: Robes of the archmagi are similar, only work for arcane spellcasters, which can be UMD via class feature roll. I would not think "arcane spell caster" would be a class feature, but rather a synonym for "creature that can cast arcane spells".
UMD would let you emulate the spell casting class feature, but would not let you cast spells, so shouldn't work...
Edit: Same with the prayer beads. They specifically say "capable of casting divine spells" and there is no way to emulate a class feature in such a way that you are able to do that, right?
Cavall wrote: Doors that require a channeled to activate them I think was the standard example. If it requires a channel use to activate it, how would UMD help?
toastedamphibian wrote: Calth wrote: Robes of the archmagi are similar, only work for arcane spellcasters, which can be UMD via class feature roll. I would not think "arcane spell caster" would be a class feature, but rather a synonym for "creature that can cast arcane spells".
UMD would let you emulate the spell casting class feature, but would not let you cast spells, so shouldn't work...
Edit: Same with the prayer beads. They specifically say "capable of casting divine spells" and there is no way to emulate a class feature in such a way that you are able to do that, right? That's exactly what the emulate a class feature UMD is for though. Robes of the Archmagi cares nothing about using the feature to cast arcane spells, only that the creatures has the feature. Emulating that feature thus fulfills the requirement. If the robes required you to cast a spell to gain a benefit, UMD wouldn't work, but they don't, so it does.
Calth wrote:
That's exactly what the emulate a class feature UMD is for though. Robes of the Archmagi cares nothing about using the feature to cast arcane spells, only that the creatures has the feature. Emulating that feature thus fulfills the requirement. If the robes required you to cast a spell to gain a benefit, UMD wouldn't work, but they don't, so it does.
"This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature."
1. UMD: Emulate "Spells" class feature of wizard level of umd check -20
2. Cannot cast spells
3. Can activate items that require "Spells" class feature
4. ???
5. Activate item that requires ability to cast an arcane spell
I think I'm not quite getting the distinction, why that sentence precludes one, but not the other.
Because items like Robes of the Archmagi don't actually require you to use a class feature, just appear to have it. UMD let's you appear to have arcane spellcasting so you gain the benefits of the robe. The robes don't require you to actually cast any spells to gain a benefit so not actually having spells doesn't matter. Items that grant a better version of X don't work with UMD because you don't have X at all.
In Pathfinder if you don't have something the default isn't 0, it's undefined. Technically using UMD with glovea of Dueling works as the item would be active but you don't get any benefit from it without having the actual class feature.
toastedamphibian wrote: Cavall wrote: Doors that require a channeled to activate them I think was the standard example. If it requires a channel use to activate it, how would UMD help? "This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature."
Seems to help just fine. You trick the door into thinking you have channel so it opens, but you can't actually channel to heal allies or hurt undead.
Cavall wrote: toastedamphibian wrote: Cavall wrote: Doors that require a channeled to activate them I think was the standard example. If it requires a channel use to activate it, how would UMD help? "This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature."
Seems to help just fine. You trick the door into thinking you have channel so it opens, but you can't actually channel to heal allies or hurt undead. Is this an actual thing? You said the door requires a channel to activate, not the ability to channel, but an actual channel attempt. At least, that is what I thought you meant. Does it say something like "This door only opens for creature with the ability to channel energy"?
What about a Viper Tattoo
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/tatto o-viper
Could you UMD while activating it to emulate the sneak attack of a rogue to give the Viper extra damage, at a rate of .5(UMD-20)?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/amule t-of-uncanny-defense
Could you UMD Uncanny Dodge, and then get Improved Uncanny Dodge?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/specific-magic-armor/murder er-s-blackcloth
Could you UMD the Bleeding Attack talent, and gain +1 Bleed damage on your sneak attacks? It says increase the bleed damage of your sneak attacks by +1, not increase the bleed damage caused by Bleeding attack...
toastedamphibian wrote: Cavall wrote: toastedamphibian wrote: Cavall wrote: Doors that require a channeled to activate them I think was the standard example. If it requires a channel use to activate it, how would UMD help? "This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature."
Seems to help just fine. You trick the door into thinking you have channel so it opens, but you can't actually channel to heal allies or hurt undead. Is this an actual thing? You said the door requires a channel to activate, not the ability to channel, but an actual channel attempt. At least, that is what I thought you meant. Does it say something like "This door only opens for creature with the ability to channel energy"? Was literally the core 3.5 book example.of how to use something like that yeah. What I meant to say was channeler but got corrected to channeled. You're basically tricking the item into thinking you can do something or that you are something. Such as an axe that works for orcs better you can pretend to be an orc by UMD race. If it asked then once you've tricked it into being an orc that it increases your orc ferocity... well you don't actually have that so no bonus. Bit if it gave all orcs +1 hot point... that would be fine.
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