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I've just seen this and I agree that it's wrong. Allowing stuff like this can lead to a black market which eventually can have a dire effect on the living campaign.
I'm old enough to remember the AD&D living campaign city in the USA back in the days of the RPGA where this happened on a vast basis including counterfeiting. It got so bad that it eventually caused TSR to pull the entire campaign.
As others have said, it might not be illegal but its wrong and can have bad consequences for all
said with respect to all.
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So does that mean that the auction has been cancelled?
If there was language on the race boons that stated that the boons were not legal if sold for monetary value (or some other type of legal language) it could help stop this from happen, at least on such a public forum like Ebay.
The problem there is that this then cuts off the ability to auction boons for charity purposes (which does happen at big events like GenCon on occasion). That, and it is unenforceable. How do you prove someone "paid" for a boon?
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I'm guessing my opinion may well be in the minority, but I have absolutely no personal objections when it comes to the idea of selling boons that were earned by a player or GM.
What I would object to is an event coordinator selling undistributed copies of boon. Not that I've heard of that happening, mind you.
To that end I would like to see all future player/GM boons have a line added to them where the PFS number of the original recipient is added with a place to be initialed. Then in Season 9 guide put a line that all boons dated after xx/xx/xxxx must have this field filled in and initialed by the person distributing the boon or the boon is invalid.
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All the PbP boons I get have this done already (presumably due to the ease of printing the PDF multiple times). It's a excellent idea to be made standard. Better would be serial numbers, or an "activate your boon" similar to the "activate your PFS number" system (And yes, I know that's too much work for such a small problem.)
So does that mean that the auction has been cancelled?
If there was language on the race boons that stated that the boons were not legal if sold for monetary value (or some other type of legal language) it could help stop this from happen, at least on such a public forum like Ebay.
Three actually sold and another one was ended.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Online
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For online event boons, we have been adding the original receiver's PFS# to the boons for some time.
On this particular boon listing on eBay, we notified the local VOs yesterday and they have already contacted the appropriate people at the store and PFS leadership.
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The problem there is that this then cuts off the ability to auction boons for charity purposes (which does happen at big events like GenCon on occasion). That, and it is unenforceable. How do you prove someone "paid" for a boon?So does that mean that the auction has been cancelled?
If there was language on the race boons that stated that the boons were not legal if sold for monetary value (or some other type of legal language) it could help stop this from happen, at least on such a public forum like Ebay.
Oh I completely agree it would be unenforceable.
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It's already been acted on by the Orlando, VC. The game store in question is a great supporter for the gaming community. I don't think they knew that this isn't a thing we want to do.
I was literally sending you a link to this thread so you could get ahold of the Orlando VC when I saw your post. I'm glad it got sorted out; I always feel like honest mistakes shouldn't be punished, but talked about and corrected.
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After reviewing the Paizo Policies page and current PFS RPG Guide your statement is incorrect. This in no way makes the item untradeable.I would encourage VOs to put the receiver’s PFS number on the top of the boon where it says "Pathfinder Society #".DO NOT DO THIS. Doing so makes the boon untradable. If you wish to put the PFS number on a convention boon chronicle, do so under the notes section, as something along the lines of "originally issued to".
I believe he's saying (with some cause) that the character number being up top implies that the boon has been applied to a character, which would make it untradable (since it's already been used)
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Online
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Adding the PFS number to the actual PFS # line does imply use, in my opinion.
For online event boons we add a line at the bottom that reads:
"Originally Issued To: 456xyz"
And we suggest that people mark it as traded by adding:
"Traded to: abc123 ON xx/xx/xxxx"
If they trade the boon.
That keeps a record of where it has been and does not imply use.
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If you want a race boon - just hold on. They cycle around. You could also GM at a convention as volunteering is a good thing!
I will respect the fact that paizo staffers are on vacation and not set up the soapbox until sometime in mid january (but the soap box IS getting a nice coat of paint)
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Not to go too tangential to the OP, but (and I know others won't necessarily agree) I firmly believe that we should at least put the players number on a boon sheet. It is a nice security feature and it can actually help ensure that boon trades are valid.
It protects players from illegitimate trades. I have talked to players that had their binders/backpacks/containers walk away from them, either accidentally or intentionally. If a person has a boon with another players' number on them, and no record of trade, it is possible that boon (and potentially other property) was stolen.
It provides protection for organizers. By putting a player number on the sheet, it can help prevent someone from making copies of the boon and trading/selling.
It prevents bad organizers from trading away the leftover copies of boons for other players more limited stash of boons.
Boons do have value. Selling them on eBay is dangerous because once you start allowing it, you potentially increase the risk of thievery. Very few people would think to steal a boon to trade for another boon. More would probably steal if they could turn around and sell it easily.
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Todd, that gives me an interesting idea.
I think from now on when I trade for boons online I will ask the person I am trading with to send me a photo showing the boon with their PFS number somewhere on it (either originally issue to or traded to) next to their PFS card showing the same number and I will do the same for them. That way I can take a step to verify the trade is legit before sending the actual boon.
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That is logistically unfeasible for larger conventions (or any convention, for that matter).
The Boon line/roll for conventions would go from a matter of minutes to much longer if they have to verify each person's PFS number and enter it mechanically (not just handwriting on the sheet) so as to prove that it isn't just some scrawled in random number.
In addition, this would have a very chilling effect on new players who *just* got a brand new PFS number and haven't memorized it yet.
The bigger question then would be, how does one assign a boon, after a roll/table situation, that sounds both fair, equitable and community building?
Does it go to a 'GenCon' or 'PaizoCon' method, where a certain number of games signed up for (player/GM/Volunteer) automatically gets a player a Boon, in addition to GMing?
If such is the case, is it randomly rolled sight unseen before-hand and put in the packet of GMs, and given to the player at the first game they play?
Would this get rid of the 'random roll to see if you even have a chance to get a boon' that most other conventions I've played at use for boon distribution?
How can we make it user/player-friendly while at the same time minimizing logistical footprint?
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That is logistically unfeasible for larger conventions (or any convention, for that matter).
The Boon line/roll for conventions would go from a matter of minutes to much longer if they have to verify each person's PFS number and enter it mechanically (not just handwriting on the sheet) so as to prove that it isn't just some scrawled in random number.
In addition, this would have a very chilling effect on new players who *just* got a brand new PFS number and haven't memorized it yet.
I'm not sure who you are responding to, but I'm not asking for anything more complicated then handwriting a PFS number on the sheet.
If a player just got a PFS number they should be carrying their card around. They need to put that number on the chronicles they are receiving. As a GM I would feel extremely uncomfortable with the idea of letting a player walk away from the table with a chronicle that doesn't have their PFS number and character number already written in.
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I'm not sure who you are responding to, but I'm not asking for anything more complicated then handwriting a PFS number on the sheet.
Once for every boon handed out, which can be a lot in a real hurry at a larger con (i was behind the lone wolf people cashing in a bucket of chips and was there for a wile as it was) or at a smaller con a con organizer that's handing out boons, taking reports, AND possibly running a game may already be a bit overwhelmed.
I think "issued to" traded to trade to applied to..." lines down at the bottom would encourage an accountability system without really demanding anything.
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That is logistically unfeasible for larger conventions (or any convention, for that matter).
The Boon line/roll for conventions would go from a matter of minutes to much longer if they have to verify each person's PFS number and enter it mechanically (not just handwriting on the sheet) so as to prove that it isn't just some scrawled in random number.
In addition, this would have a very chilling effect on new players who *just* got a brand new PFS number and haven't memorized it yet.
I'm not sure who you are responding to, but I'm not asking for anything more complicated then handwriting a PFS number on the sheet.
As someone who has personally worked the GM Prize table and has personally hand signed boons one year when the table was open after the Friday Special I can tell you that having people do that much hand writing is not that much fun. And Tonya and company eliminated that this year, thankfully. But smaller conventions may still have to do the hand signing.
Having to write every players PFS number would be far worse and would substantially increase the time it takes for the prize table at Gen Con, and other conventions to get it's job done.
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Right. That's what I'm asking for. I just think it should be codified in the campaign rules.
I believe the meatspace people are responding with "oh hell no! please don't do that!" because its a giant PITA when you have to do it a few hundred times and or while doing other stuff.
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[set derail = true]
As a GM I would feel extremely uncomfortable with the idea of letting a player walk away from the table with a chronicle that doesn't have their PFS number and character number already written in.
This is happening now. I had a whole topic on how GMs are not following the Guide because it is too much work to follow it.
[set derail = false]
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[set derail = true]
As a GM I would feel extremely uncomfortable with the idea of letting a player walk away from the table with a chronicle that doesn't have their PFS number and character number already written in.This is happening now. I had a whole topic on how GMs are not following the Guide because it is too much work to follow it.
[set derail = false]
Its one of the seasonal issues really, like spring showers or late winter and the snow is all grey season.
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Right. That's what I'm asking for. I just think it should be codified in the campaign rules.I believe the meatspace people are responding with "oh hell no! please don't do that!" because its a giant PITA when you have to do it a few hundred times and or while doing other stuff.
If your con is big enough that you have to do it a few hundred times, make it so that there are multiple people that can do it.
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If your con is big enough that you have to do it a few hundred times, make it so that there are multiple people that can do it.
With.
What.
Bodies?
Seriously, it's hard enough to get enough personnel support for most conventions even in ideal circumstances, and then having an additional 2-4 people *minimum* that are doing nothing but signing sheets and making sure that they got numbers right *each slot* that it is a non-starter.
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Hey, this Pathfinder stuff is fun! I'm glad we stopped by and tried it. I'm definitely going to come to one of your local game days. I've got to run but here's these token things my girlfriend and I got. What am I supposed to do, roll a die?
Nice! I won something! Ooh, that will be cool on my character. What? Oh, yeah, we got numbers from the DM but my girlfriend took the cards and papers. She went ahead to get seats for the costume contest.
No, sorry, I don't have a clue. No, I can't come back, after the contest is the dance. What do you mean you can't give it to me without a number. This is bogus.
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For whatever it is worth, someone is also selling their purple GM shirt.
they sold 2 of 3 shirts, so look for cosplay barbarian GM at GenCon 2017... lol...
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If your con is big enough that you have to do it a few hundred times, make it so that there are multiple people that can do it.
With.
What.
Bodies?
Seriously, it's hard enough to get enough personnel support for most conventions even in ideal circumstances, and then having an additional 2-4 people *minimum* that are doing nothing but signing sheets and making sure that they got numbers right *each slot* that it is a non-starter.
How many people are you giving boons to? Players are supposed to win boons about 10% of the time. Unless you are talking about a con the size of GenCon or PaizoCon, you shouldn't be having to fill out boons constantly.
Each slot, you should be giving out about 2 boons for every 3 tables. All the local cons I've been to tend to run about 12 tables in a single slot at their peak, with 6 to 8 being about normal.
Simulating a bunch of convention boon rolls with a RNG, a 10-slot (4-day), @12 tables per slot convention generally gave out between 70 and 90 player boons, after 100 simulations I never broke 120 boons. Add GM boons to that, worst case scenario that's about 50 boons per day. You don't need 3 or 4 people constantly filling out boons for that.
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Hey, this Pathfinder stuff is fun! I'm glad we stopped by and tried it. I'm definitely going to come to one of your local game days. I've got to run but here's these token things my girlfriend and I got. What am I supposed to do, roll a die?
Nice! I won something! Ooh, that will be cool on my character. What? Oh, yeah, we got numbers from the DM but my girlfriend took the cards and papers. She went ahead to get seats for the costume contest.
No, sorry, I don't have a clue. No, I can't come back, after the contest is the dance. What do you mean you can't give it to me without a number. This is bogus.
Well, it's a good thing we have the reporting sheets that our GMs turned in. So what's your name? Do you happen to remember the name of the adventure or the GM that ran it?
Organization is key.
Suggestion: Don't use tokens. Have the table GM conduct the boon rolls at the end of the session at the table and walk all the winners over to the HQ to get their boons at the same time they turn in their reporting sheets.