RAW, how would these shenanigans work?


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

tl;dr

- Halfling Fighter (Eldritch Guardian) with a mauler flying fox familiar and the (only listing the relevant ones) feats Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Power Attack, Risky Striker, Steadfast Slayer and Lunge.

Halfling fighter pops a potion of Reduce Person in the first round to further abuse Risky Striker/Steadfast Slayer.

Turn would go as follows;

- They charge. Halfling Fighter, using a lance, declares his intent to use Lunge to extend his reach so as to qualify for Steadfast Slayer, which only works if you're the only creature currently threatening your intended target. This takes him outside of his mount's natural 5' reach despite being tiny, as he is stacking a reach weapon with Lunge.

Now, from there I'm lost, so I'm just gonna spitball a bit and see what's right.

- Would the mount then be able to declare its use of Lunge as well (shared feats) and attack? If not, would ride-by attack enable it to continue a further 5' and attack, and if this is the case, would it have to stop there after the attack or would it be able to continue on past the target?

- Would the mount qualify for Steadfast Slayer if it used Lunge? I'm guessing not, as the rider would still be threatening (I think.)

- Due to the shitfest that is mounted rules, what charging feats that the owner has would the flying fox be able to use due to shared feats?


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

References:
Eldrich Guardian

Mauler familiar archetype

BAT, Flying Fox

Lunge feat

Risky Striker

Steadfast Slayer


congrats on touching mounted combat and be warned, there is no set rule for how this works. So ask the GM/decide whatever you want.

But on one other rule point. If you go tiny your reach is 0ft and doubling that with a reach weapon is still 0ft. So with lunge you're only getting 5ft reach, not 10ft.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Osmin wrote:
- Would the mount then be able to declare its use of Lunge as well (shared feats) and attack?

By what method are you sharing feats with your familiar ?

SKILLS are shared, but the familiar has its own feats.

EDIT: found it, it's specific to Eldrich Guardian, called "Share Training (Ex)". Only works on COMBAT feats.


SlimGauge wrote:
Osmin wrote:
- Would the mount then be able to declare its use of Lunge as well (shared feats) and attack?

By what method are you sharing feats with your familiar ?

SKILLS are shared, but the familiar has its own feats.

Eldritch Guardian shares combat feats with familiar.

Liberty's Edge

SlimGauge wrote:
Osmin wrote:
- Would the mount then be able to declare its use of Lunge as well (shared feats) and attack?

By what method are you sharing feats with your familiar ?

SKILLS are shared, but the familiar has its own feats.
Quote:
At 2nd level, when the familiar can see and hear its master, it can use any combat feat possessed by the eldritch guardian.
Chess Pwn wrote:

congrats on touching mounted combat and be warned, there is no set rule for how this works. So ask the GM/decide whatever you want.

But on one other rule point. If you go tiny your reach is 0ft and doubling that with a reach weapon is still 0ft. So with lunge you're only getting 5ft reach, not 10ft.

Ouch. I can't seem to find a FAQ for this either, which is ridiculous considering I specifically recall coming across at least one bestiary entry (can't remember which) where a tiny creature with a reach weapon had 5' reach (This actually spurred the idea in the first place.)


There are a few tiny creatures that say specifically they have 5ft reach with an attack. Like a tiny dragon has 5ft reach with a tail attack. One twig creature has 5ft reach with a spear. AND the tooth fairies have 5ft reach with their pliers. But nothing that says a 0ft reach tiny creature gets 5ft reach with a reach weapon. link to thread discussing this


Tiny Reach Stuff

It would seem the main consensus if a tiny creature with a Reach weapon has a Reach of 5ft.


Chess Pwn wrote:

congrats on touching mounted combat and be warned, there is no set rule for how this works. So ask the GM/decide whatever you want.

But on one other rule point. If you go tiny your reach is 0ft and doubling that with a reach weapon is still 0ft. So with lunge you're only getting 5ft reach, not 10ft.

If what you are saying is true, there's no reason why the halfling should not just stay Size Small. Mauler Familiars grow to size Medium in their Battle Form.

Liberty's Edge

This is one of about fifty thousand moments where I regret being a diehard PFS player. While everyone seems to agree in both those threads, there hasn't been an official FAQ that I can find. Unless the creative directors' input would qualify?

Liberty's Edge

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:

congrats on touching mounted combat and be warned, there is no set rule for how this works. So ask the GM/decide whatever you want.

But on one other rule point. If you go tiny your reach is 0ft and doubling that with a reach weapon is still 0ft. So with lunge you're only getting 5ft reach, not 10ft.

If what you are saying is true, there's no reason why the halfling should not just stay Size Small. Mauler Familiars grow to size Medium in their Battle Form.

Two reasons, actually; this build is focused on being an absolute nuke and being small, rather than tiny, would both decrease the damage boost from Steadfast Slayer and prevent me from using Risky Striker on medium sized creatures.


Okay, lets address whether what Chess Pwn says is true.

Chess Pwn wrote:
is 0ft and doubling that with a reach weapon is still 0ft.

I don't think that it is simply the case that Reach Weapons Double a creature's reach.

Core Rulebook, Weapons, Reach wrote:
Reach: You use a reach weapon to strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't use it against an adjacent foe.

I'd be surprised if it were truly the intent that pixie-fairies are not allowed to use pixie-sized Long Spears. And a brief look at the RAW suggests this is not the case.

But perhaps there is other RAW.

Per RAW, it seems that Armies of Giants also are effectively prohibited from using Long Spears to increase their Reach, and that is just as silly.

Liberty's Edge

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Okay, lets address whether what Chess Pwn says is true.

Chess Pwn wrote:
is 0ft and doubling that with a reach weapon is still 0ft.

I don't think that it is simply the case that Reach Weapons Double a creature's reach.

Core Rulebook, Weapons, Reach wrote:
Reach: You use a reach weapon to strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't use it against an adjacent foe.

I'd be surprised if it were truly the intent that pixie-fairies are not allowed to use pixie-sized Long Spears. And a brief look at the RAW suggests this is not the case.

But perhaps there is other RAW.

Per RAW, it seems that Armies of Giants also are effectively prohibited from using Long Spears to increase their Reach, and that is just as silly.

Same page, a bit before that:

PRD wrote:
Reach Weapons: Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Okay, lets address whether what Chess Pwn says is true.

Chess Pwn wrote:
is 0ft and doubling that with a reach weapon is still 0ft.

I don't think that it is simply the case that Reach Weapons Double a creature's reach.

Core Rulebook, Weapons, Reach wrote:
Reach: You use a reach weapon to strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't use it against an adjacent foe.

I'd be surprised if it were truly the intent that pixie-fairies are not allowed to use pixie-sized Long Spears. And a brief look at the RAW suggests this is not the case.

But perhaps there is other RAW.

Per RAW, it seems that Armies of Giants also are effectively prohibited from using Long Spears to increase their Reach, and that is just as silly.

Same page, a bit before that:

PRD wrote:
Reach Weapons: Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

Okay, so RAW is not as silly as I thought: it says that it is not completely pointless for Size L,H, and G creatures to use Reach Weapons. Can you find where it says it is completely pointless for a Tiny Creature to use Reach Weapons? I found where it says 10'. You found where

Reach Weapons wrote:
targets that aren't adjacent to him

You are supporting my main point.

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