| Merm7th |
Greetings all. I have an animate dead question. When I use the spell to create a zombie the creature gains the zombie template and gains bonus hit dice based on its size. Does this bonus count when determining the number of hit dice I can control?
Example... a Dire Wolf is large and has 5 hit dice. When animated into a zombie it gains 2 bonus hit dice for being large. Does it count as 5HD or 7HD when determining the number of hit dice of creatures I can affect with the spell(caster lvl x 2)? Does it count as 5 or 7 when determining the total number of hit dice I can control (caster lvl x 4)?
| Blymurkla |
The zombie has 7HD, so it counts as 7.
Think of it this way:
The zombie template instructs you to remove class HD and only count racial HD. So creatures with only class HD (such as humans, elves and really most NPCs) have 0 + bonus HD.
If you didn't count the bonus HD for Animate Dead raising and controlling purposes, you'd be able to raise infinite numbers of dead humans.
| Jeraa |
The zombie has 7HD, so it counts as 7.
Think of it this way:
The zombie template instructs you to remove class HD and only count racial HD. So creatures with only class HD (such as humans, elves and really most NPCs) have 0 + bonus HD.If you didn't count the bonus HD for Animate Dead raising and controlling purposes, you'd be able to raise infinite numbers of dead humans.
Humans and other humanoids actually do have racial hit dice. It is just that, for humanoids with only one racial hit die, you drop it in place of a class level.
Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class. Humanoids of this sort are typically presented as 1st-level warriors, which means they have average combat ability and poor saving throws. Humanoids with more than 1 Hit Die are the only humanoids who make use of the features of the humanoid type. A humanoid has the following features (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
So once you drop the HD from class levels, you would still have the 1 racial hit die that normally gets replaced by the class level. That is why the example zombie in the book (a human zombie) has 2 hit die. 1 racial HD, plus the one bonus HD for being a medium zombie.
Rysky
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Blymurkla wrote:The zombie has 7HD, so it counts as 7.
Think of it this way:
The zombie template instructs you to remove class HD and only count racial HD. So creatures with only class HD (such as humans, elves and really most NPCs) have 0 + bonus HD.If you didn't count the bonus HD for Animate Dead raising and controlling purposes, you'd be able to raise infinite numbers of dead humans.
Humans and other humanoids actually do have racial hit dice. It is just that, for humanoids with only one racial hit die, you drop it in place of a class level.
Quote:Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class. Humanoids of this sort are typically presented as 1st-level warriors, which means they have average combat ability and poor saving throws. Humanoids with more than 1 Hit Die are the only humanoids who make use of the features of the humanoid type. A humanoid has the following features (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).So once you drop the HD from class levels, you would still have the 1 racial hit die that normally gets replaced by the class level. That is why the example zombie in the book (a human zombie) has 2 hit die. 1 racial HD, plus the one bonus HD for being a medium zombie.
Where is that quote from?
| Jeraa |
So if I'm a 8th lvl caster and there is a dead creature with 16 racial hit dice I could animate it as a skeliton but not a zombie?
Under normal circumstances, correct. You could animate that creature as a skeleton but not as a zombie.
There are ways around that, however. The desecrate spell doubles the amount of hit dice you can animate in a single casting. If the area were under the effect of a desecrate spell, that same 8th level caster cold create up to 32 hit dice of undead with a single casting (in addition to giving the undead created in that area bonus hit points).
| Luiginosuke |
When calculating the cost, do you use the racial hit die only, or include the bonus hd for size?
The alchemist pays 100g per hd so it’s more significant difference. Tho it seems to me that between the Animate Dead spell, and the Alchemical Zombie discovery, the cost is calculated differently.
In Animate Dead, component cost is 25g per hd of the “undead”. In Alchemical Zombie Discovery, cost us 100g of the “corpse”.
| Azothath |
two different abilities, not the same.
→Animate Dead:N3|4 spell
{paraphrased} Req: 5-7th CL. Description: This spell turns corpses into undead skeletons or zombies, takes a standard action and costs 25 gp per HD of the dead creature that gains the skeleton or zombie template. May Control up to 4*CL in HD.
→Alchemist's Discoveries Other Discoveries - Alchemical Zombie (Su) (Ultimate Magic pg. 15)
{paraphrased}Req: Alch 8th. Description: Animate a relatively complete corpse as zombie, takes 1 hour and costs 100 gp per HD of the dead creature that gains the zombie template. see animate dead for the purposes of determining how many undead the alchemist can control. The created zombie is a creature, not a supernatural effect.
Usually for animal type etc they gain size with HD but the main part of the above cost is simply based on the creature's existing HD. The template is then going to add HD based on size to the creature which the caster pays for.
If you animate a war trained advanced(heavy) horse it is 2HD and you cannot spend extra cash to advance it to 6HD (see homunculus). The zombie template will add 2HD for a total of 4HD large Zombie Horse. A skeleton template adds 0HD for a total of 2HD large Skeleton Horse (thus skeletons are cheaper than zombies). A GM could allow a base HD increase but I have never seen it done for PCs unless they find a dire or templated creature.
Some base HD samples: Wolverine(medium) 3HD, Dire Wolverine(large) 5HD, Bison(large) 5HD, Polar Bear(large) 5HD, Tiger(large) 6HD, Dire Smilodon(large) 9HD, Common Elephant(huge) 11HD.
| Azothath |
Animate dead says Components V, S, M (an onyx gem worth at least 25 gp per Hit Die of the undead) so cost by total HD of the undead.
... for the Alchemist's process
Alchemical Zombie (Su) says 100 gp in alchemical reagents per HD of the corpse being animated; the dead creature gains the zombie template. so cost by base HD of the creature, (yes) the bonus HD from the template are free.
grumble - they just had to make it different and I'm accustomed to the spell