Ratfolk swarming

[Blymurkla]

PRD wrote:

Swarming: Ratfolk are used to living and fighting communally, and are adept at swarming foes for their own gain and their foes' detriment. Up to two ratfolk can share the same square at the same time. If two ratfolk in the same square attack the same foe, they are considered to be flanking that foe as if they were in two opposite squares.

When are two ratfolk in the same square considered to be attacking the same foe? Is a readied action the only way both for participating ratfolk to benefit from flanking in the same round?

[Gisher]

That is a really good question.

[Cavall]

You're hostile to all in your reach. I think that's all that would be needed for this to count as flanking.

[Jurassic Pratt]

I'd rule it as Cavall said above.

[Blymurkla]

Cavall wrote:

You're hostile to all in your reach. I think that's all that would be needed for this to count as flanking.

I'd very much like that, but it's far from what it says.

[Jurassic Pratt]

Ok then, lets say the two players have to decide before hand in the round that they will both attack that one enemy. Then within that combat round they are both attacking the same enemy and both gain the benefit

The intention of the ability is very clear in my mind.

[Cavall]

If I'm with a cleric and he's attacking an orc and another orc sneaks up to hit him and then I flank THAT orc, I'm flanking. Because my cleric (even though he's attacking a different one) is clearly hostile to the other. Just how flanking works.

However if you want the exact RAW?

Rat one needs to attack first. Then rat two can attack and now they are both attacking the same person and now flank from then on.

Which seems clunky and very much against the intent of swarming an opponent.

If it matters to you, delay action and attack at the same time so you're both swarming from that moment.

[Blymurkla]

Cavall wrote:

If it matters to you, delay action and attack at the same time so you're both swarming from that moment.

If we're going with the rules as written (and this is the rules forum), I don't think delay cuts it.

There's nothing in the rules that indicate that two characters acting on the same initiative are acting simultaneously. Character A acting on initiative 11 followed by B also at 11 is effectively the same as A acting on 12 and B on 11. One acts before the other.

If both participating ratfolk wants the flanking bonus, a readied action is the only way.

Unless, of course, "attack the same foe" carries over from last turn. Which would mean that a readied action is the only way for both to gain the benefit in the first turn, but all subsequent turns would allow both to gain the benefit without such trouble. But the rules don't say that it carries over ...