Bull rush, falling off of cliffs, dc to catch youself

[Java Man]

A houserule I have decided to use is that bullrush, pushing assault and the like can put the victim in dangerous places. Afterall, if someone is dumb enough to stand on the edge of a sheer cliff, you should be able to shove them off. This concept and ramifications is just fine with my group.

The hang up that has occurred to me, and I'm working on the answer before it comes up in session, is what the roll should be for the victim to catch the edge of cliff, or grab a bush, o something, before falling. My first idea is a reflex save dc of 10+ 1/2 attacker's bab + attacker's str mod. This would scale with level at about the same rate as spell save dcs.

Does this sound decent? Any other ideas?

[rainzax]

Attack roll?

[Sundakan]

This isn't a houserule. Bull Rush can do this by RAW. Their "save" was failed when their CMD wasn't up to snuff. There shouldn't be a second one.

[Thomas LeBlanc]

What if the successful bull rush indicates a 20 ft. push and the victim is at the edge already?

I allow the combat maneuvers to move creatures into dangerous spots in my game. But I don't allow saves to prevent the outcome. I DO allow a +2 or +4 circumstance bonus to CMD in such times though.

[Jader7777]

If they are bull rushed just 1 square/5 feet from the edge I'll give them a reflex save you grab on. If you get bull rushed like 6 squares/30 feet welp I hope you have feather fall ready.

[Java Man]

Okay, clearly hackers have gone and altered every site on tbe web, and my print books, to remove the "target must end up in a safe space it can stand in" from bullrush, leaving it in pushing assault as a taunt.

[SlimGauge]

If you want to, check the acrobatics rules for jumping and appropriate the rule for grabbing onto the edge on a failed longjump. "If you fail this check by 4 or less, you can attempt a DC 20 Reflex save to grab hold of the other side after having missed the jump." We ruled that if the bullrush was only good enough to just barely push you off, you got this save, but if it was good enough to push you an extra five feet beyond what was needed, you don't even get this.

My group was using this house rule when the paladin was pushed off the narrow path we were all traveling on. Her sword and shield went spinning off into the chasm while she ended up clinging to the ledge since she needed her hands. Fortunately the wizard was able to fly down and get them after the fight was over and the sorcerer was high enough level to cast make whole on them.

[Goblin_Priest]

Yea, I'd base it off the acrobatics rules myself.

[Tarik Blackhands]

I personally just have the sap fall. Combat maneuvers are already general piles of mediocrity without significant investment and this particular stunt is already stonewalled by anything with fly to begin with. No need to make something quite frankly cool looking, worse.

[voideternal]

Skill Descriptions, Climb wrote:

...
Catch Yourself When Falling: It's practically impossible to catch yourself on a wall while falling, yet if you wish to attempt such a difficult task, you can make a Climb check (DC = wall's DC + 20) to do so. It's much easier to catch yourself on a slope (DC = slope's DC + 10).

Catch a Falling Character While Climbing: If someone climbing above you or adjacent to you falls, you can attempt to catch the falling character if he or she is within your reach. Doing so requires a successful melee touch attack against the falling character (though he or she can voluntarily forego any Dexterity bonus to AC if desired). If you hit, you must immediately attempt a Climb check (DC = wall's DC + 10). Success indicates that you catch the falling character, but his total weight, including equipment, cannot exceed your heavy load limit or you automatically fall. If you fail your Climb check by 4 or less, you fail to stop the character's fall but don't lose your grip on the wall. If you fail by 5 or more, you fail to stop the character's fall and begin falling as well.

Action: Climbing is part of movement, so it's generally part of a move action (and may be combined with other types of movement in a move action). Each move action that includes any climbing requires a separate Climb check. Catching yourself or another falling character doesn't take an action.

Since noone mentioned it, I thought I should. RAW, you can catch yourself while falling through the above.