The Magus and the Two Bladed Sword

[Raven Moon]

So I would like to know what builds, if at all you would make a magus using a two bladed sword. For some reason I keep seeing Darth Maul in my mind while thinking about this but thats not what I want to make. Show me some other version of this please. Nothing over 10th level.

[Issac Daneil]

The magus normally needs a one handed weapon and a free hand to use Spell Combat; so you would need something to replace or alter spell combat. The heavily armored magus variant (whose archetype name escapes me), could work.

[Raven Moon]

Thus far I havent been able to accomplish the two bladed sword until 3rd level so IM looking for other builds that get creative with this.

[Torbyne]

Mindblade Magus can do this innately. Otherwise you need to come to terms with giving up Spell Combat since you are using a two handed weapon. Spell Strike is still valid though you need to talk with the GM about taking a hand off weapon to cast and then going back to TWF/THF. Again, Mindblade gets around this by not needing somantic components for any spell though even then they cant Spell Combat with a double weapon until level 7 or 8.

[Imbicatus]

The problem is that you cannot use spell combat while wielding a two handed weapon or a weapon in your off hand. Double weapons can be both. The only way you could do this is as a mindblade, and then not until 7th level.

[Raven Moon]

OK here is what I have basically to make it work. Let me know if I am wrong on this and not just in opinion but by the rules.

level 1 and 2 will not get me to where I want to be. But at level 3 I have a high enough BAB to get exotic weapon prof for two bladed sword. I also pick up the still spell feat and the magus ability still spell. Now this only gives a pair of spells that can be used while wielding the two bladed sword but it is the earliest I have found it can be done.
so at 3rd level I have this. Its not an efficient cast and attack but its the first pairing I have found.

* exotic weapon prof - 2 bladed sword
* feat - still spell
* magus arcana - still magic (1/day)

[Torbyne]

Even removing the somatic component from a spell doesn't allow you to spell combat as the rules specifically say a light or one handed weapon in one hand and nothing in the other. Mindblade has a specific exception to this at level 7.

[Gisher]

As Torbyne said, whether a spell has somatic components is irrelevant.

UM wrote:

Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.

So he is also correct that Mindblade (7th level or higher) is your only option for using Spell Combat while using a double weapon as a double weapon.

[Raven Moon]

Point taken, I had forgotten about that in trying to create this build. I will have to look further into the mindblade.

[Raven Moon]

I dont have the book the mindblade is in so that could also be a reason I mussed it.

[Kazaan]

If you have an ability that allows you to wield a two-handed weapon as a one-handed weapon (eg. Jotungrip), then you can wield a Two-Bladed Sword as a one-handed weapon using only one end of it and it will be compatible with Spell Combat. You'll still be able to wield it two-handed or as a double weapon when you aren't doing Spell Combat. Alternatively, if you use a Two-Bladed Sword that's one size too small for you, you treat it as a one-handed weapon (and take a -2 penalty). You can still wield it with two hands to use it as a double weapon or to get two-handed benefits, but it will never count as a full-on two-handed weapon for abilities that demand the use of an actual 2-h weapon (eg. Pushing Assault).

[Torbyne]

Just remember that Jotungrip and over/undersized weapons all come with extra -2 penalties to take onto the -2 from spell combat... which kind of sucks a lot.

[Imbicatus]

If you want a normal sized double weapon that can be used one handed the taiaha is an option.

[ngc7293]

I know this isn't a magus idea, but if you REALLY want that Darth Maul Shtick, play a Ranger. There are the free feats and you get Lead Blades.

[Gisher]

Raven Moon wrote:

I dont have the book the mindblade is in so that could also be a reason I mussed it.

It can be found here. It was designed for this sort of thing. You'll notice that as a psychic caster you won't even have to worry about needing a hand for somatic or inexpensive material components.

[Raven Moon]

ngc7293 wrote:

I know this isn't a magus idea, but if you REALLY want that Darth Maul Shtick, play a Ranger. There are the free feats and you get Lead Blades.

Actually this is a magus idea. I keep getting the visual of Darth Maul in my mind but thats not really what I want to build. I want to try to build a magus with a two bladed sword.

Thanks everyone for the input, keep it coming. I may even have to build a special archtype just for it. Ill look into this as well.

So new question on this subject

[Raven Moon]

So new question on this subject

If you were to build an archtype for the Magus to accomplish two bladed sword combat what would do? Give me an example or two.

[Kazaan]

Raven Moon wrote:

So new question on this subject

If you were to build an archtype for the Magus to accomplish two bladed sword combat what would do? Give me an example or two.

It would probably be based somewhat on the Staff Magus chassis, giving the Quarterstaff Master feats but allowing them to work for any Double weapon; or, alternatively, just a class ability that allows them to one-hand a two-handed double weapon. Beyond that, maybe a class ability that grants extra charges to touch spells a la Chill Touch/Frostbite. For example, you might be able to use Shocking Grasp 2-3 times before it's completely exhausted rather than just once. They'd also get the TWF feats gratis but maybe only when using a double weapon.

So, to sum it up, the main points would be as follows:
1) Can wield a double weapon one-handed during Spell Combat
2) Gets TWF/ITWF/GTWF without prereqs but can only use them with a double weapon
3) Can increase the number of charges of touch spells so they behave like Frostbite/Chill Touch.

[Snowlilly]

You need more than two Hands or the ability to use the weapon one-handed

One level dip into synthesist, two level dip into alchemist, one level dip into Titan mauler, kasatha, etc.

You cannot twf in a round you use spell combat, they are mutually exclusive actions.

[Imbicatus]

I'd just use a staff magus as written, and grant an arcana that can treat any double weapon as a quarterstaff for feats and class abilities.

[Torbyne]

So... i know its not even a Magus but have you considered a Bloodrager? An Arcane bloodline Bloodrager can TWF easily thanks to full BAB+Bloodrage, auto blur and haste when raging to mimic a lot of Sithiness and gets spells on top of that.

[Imbicatus]

Torbyne wrote:

So... i know its not even a Magus but have you considered a Bloodrager? An Arcane bloodline Bloodrager can TWF easily thanks to full BAB+Bloodrage, auto blur and haste when raging to mimic a lot of Sithiness and gets spells on top of that.

This actually works very well. Darth Maul was more about rage fueled attacks and acrobatics than overt force/Magic use.

[ngc7293]

How about this, ask the GM. Play a straight Magus. You loose spell combat and spell strike. You still are able to use the Arcane pool to put points into the sword. The only real way for the magus to cast spells would be to cast outside of combat.

Outside of GM's Grace, there is the Mindblade and the heavy concentration checks.

[UnArcaneElection]

I vote for Bloodrager. Armored Battlemage Magus just doesn't seem very good (and Darth Maul wasn't heavily armored anyway, being much more oriented towards agility as well as strength . . . as well as apparently not very smart).

[Gilfalas]

My suggestion is play a staff magus and write in 'two bladed sword' where it says staff on the form.

A staff is essentially a double weapon just like the the two bladed sword is. Should not be too hard to extrapolate a similar setup. Assuming your talking a home game.