Occultist Necromantic Servant limit on number of summons


Rules Questions


Occultist Necromantic Servant:

Necromantic Servant (Sp)

As a standard action, you can expend 1 point of mental focus to raise a single human skeleton or human zombie from the ground to serve you for 10 minutes per occultist level you possess or until it is destroyed, whichever comes first. This servant has a number of hit points equal to 1/2 your maximum hit point total (not adjusted for temporary hit points or other temporary increases). It also uses your base attack bonus and gains a bonus on damage rolls equal to 1/2 your occultist level. At 5th level, whenever the necromantic servant would be destroyed, if you are within medium range (100 feet + 10 feet per level) of the servant, you can expend 1 point of mental focus as an immediate action to cause the servant to return to full hit points. At 9th level, you can choose to give the servant the bloody or burning simple template (if it's a skeleton) or the fast simple template (if it's a zombie). At 13th level, when you take an immediate action to restore your servant, it splits into two servants. You can have a maximum number of servants in existence equal to 1/2 your occultist level. At 17th level, the servant gains a teamwork feat of your choice.

For pathfinder society, what is the limit on the number of servants?

Sczarni

Necromantic Servant (Sp) wrote:
You can have a maximum number of servants in existence equal to 1/2 your occultist level.


Nefreet wrote:
Necromantic Servant (Sp) wrote:
You can have a maximum number of servants in existence equal to 1/2 your occultist level.

Thank you for your help Nefreet. I was asking because I didn't know if there was another ruling for PFS than for standard Pathfinder.


By my reading of the ability the only way to get more than one is to use the 13th level ability to split the one you're allowed to raise. So keep that in mind.


Jessex wrote:
By my reading of the ability the only way to get more than one is to use the 13th level ability to split the one you're allowed to raise. So keep that in mind.

Hmmm... It looks to me like you would just have to spend another mental focus point (and another action) to summon one. Does anyone else have further opinions?


The ability isn't to summon skeletons or zombies. The ability is to raise a single skeleton or zombie. The ability is quite specific. Only the 13th level immediate action to heal the skeleton or zombie allows for the splitting of that single servant.


Thank you for explaining it to me Jessex.


White Bunny wrote:
Jessex wrote:
By my reading of the ability the only way to get more than one is to use the 13th level ability to split the one you're allowed to raise. So keep that in mind.
Hmmm... It looks to me like you would just have to spend another mental focus point (and another action) to summon one. Does anyone else have further opinions?

I agree with your reading. Unless specifically prohibited from doing so, class abilities can be used as many times as resources and action economy allow. Legacy Weapon, for example, only affects one weapon for each use, but you could take multiple rounds to apply it to multiple weapons without negating the first use.

The Necromantic Servant ability states that each use only summons a single skeleton. That is not the same as saying that only a single skeleton can exist at one time. Contrast that with the Soulbound Puppet power which explicitly states that "[y]ou can have no more than one soulbound puppet active at any given time." In fact the later text of Necromantic Servant does explicitly allow up to 1/2 your Occultist level to exist simultaneously. That would obviously apply to the "splitting" situation, but it is not explicitly limited to that case.


This is not a summon ability.


Flagged thread to move to rules forum.


Jessex wrote:
This is not a summon ability.

Fine, it raises a skeleton rather than summoning one. That has zero impact on my argument.


Gisher wrote:
Jessex wrote:
This is not a summon ability.
Fine, it raises a skeleton rather than summoning one. That has zero impact on my argument.

The ability allows you to raise a single skeleton or zombie by the explicit text of the ability. That's it. One. Only at 13th level can you get more than one when the healing ability allows you to split the one you are allowed to have. That is the explicit text of the ability again.

PFS operates by RAW.


Jessex wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Jessex wrote:
This is not a summon ability.
Fine, it raises a skeleton rather than summoning one. That has zero impact on my argument.

The ability allows you to raise a single skeleton or zombie by the explicit text of the ability. That's it. One. Only at 13th level can you get more than one when the healing ability allows you to split the one you are allowed to have. That is the explicit text of the ability again.

PFS operates by RAW.

The explicit text actually says that you can have up to 1/2 your occultist level. Obviously one way that you can get more than one is by "splitting," but there is nothing in the text that explicitly prohibits you from using the ability in consecutive rounds to have multiple servants that were raised one at a time.

We have a conditional statement: if (you expend a standard action and a point of mental focus) then (you can raise one servant). Absent additional rules restrictions, one servant will be raised each time the necessary conditions are met. There are abilities that have restrictions like that. You can't apply Arcane Pool to a weapon twice, you can't have two light matrices at once, you can't have two soulbound puppets, etc., but all of those abilities explicitly state those restrictions. There is no such language in the Necromantic Servant ability.

Assuming that an Occultist is at least 4th level he can have up to two servants at one time. On the first round of combat, he spend one standard action and one point of mental focus to raise one servant. I think we all agree on that. On the second round, what rule then prohibits him from spending another standard action and another point of mental focus to raise one more servant?

BTW over the years Nefreet has converted me to his view on the usage of RAW and RAI, so I don't use those terms anymore.

Sczarni

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Gisher wrote:
BTW over the years Nefreet has converted me to his view on the usage of RAW and RAI, so I don't use those terms anymore.

This is the best birthday present I received this weekend ^_^

Grand Lodge

Jessex wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Jessex wrote:
This is not a summon ability.
Fine, it raises a skeleton rather than summoning one. That has zero impact on my argument.

The ability allows you to raise a single skeleton or zombie by the explicit text of the ability. That's it. One. Only at 13th level can you get more than one when the healing ability allows you to split the one you are allowed to have. That is the explicit text of the ability again.

PFS operates by RAW.

I think you are trying to say "PFS operates by Rules as Written"

If that is the case, there must be a statement in the guide, stating "PFS operates by Rules as Written"

Please point me to the page number in the guide where it says that.

Otherwise, "PFS operates by Rules as Written" is just your interpretation of the rules, and therefore, by your own assertion, an invalid statement.


"You can have a maximum number of servants in existence equal to 1/2 your occultist level."

Does that mean this ability is not usable at first level?
It doesn't say (minimum 1).


The limit is only mentioned as part of the splitting mechanic, which you don't get until much later.

At least that way it makes the most sense. If you couldn't raise servants at level 1, the ability would likely require a higher level to pick. Likewise it seems unlikely that you suddenly get a limit to your servants at high levels that didn't exist before. Because of this I believe the intent is that you are usually limited to one servant at a time.


Jessex wrote:


The ability allows you to raise a single skeleton or zombie by the explicit text of the ability. That's it. One.

Yeah, so on your first turn you spend a standard action to animate a single skeleton or zombie.

And then on your next turn you activate it again to animate a single skeleton or zombie.

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