So I've been looking at an old monk which, as I learned a while ago, I had incorrectly created. Now I am relooking at him as a MoMS Unchained Monk and I am a bit confused about the wording of the Bonus Feats ability. Does it allow me to get the Elemental Fist feat as a bonus feat if I qualify for it or does it allow for me to get a style feat that requires it only if I already have the feat? I think it is the former, however I'd love to hear some feedback.
Bonus Feat
At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus style feat or the Elemental Fist feat. He does not need to meet the prerequisites of that feat, except the Elemental Fist feat. Starting at 6th level, a master of many styles can choose to instead gain a wildcard style slot. Whenever he enters one or more styles, he can spend his wildcard style slots to gain feats in those styles’ feat paths (such as Earth Child Topple) as long as he meets the prerequisites. Each time he changes styles, he can also change these wildcard style slots.
This ability replaces a monk’s standard bonus feats.
I think I see the issue. It could mean "skip the prerequisites of the bonus feat, unless the bonus feat is Elemental Fist", or "skip the prerequisites of the bonus feat, other than any prerequisite of needing Elemental Fist".
Considering the usual prerequisites of Elemental Fist include BAB +8, and that there are a bunch of styles out there that key off of needing Elemental Fist, I'm inclined to believe the latter interpretation.
Yeah, I can see that. A guide I saw said you could take it Elemental Fist at level 6, which understandably made me a little confused. When I originally made this monk I built him wrong and gave him Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity at 1st and 2nd level respectively, which meant I didn't have to worry about it, but now that I know that that is not the way the Bonus Feats work for MoMS I'm having to figure this out. Gotta love Paizo and there sometimes terrible wording.
It looks to me that the meaning of the clumsily worded sentence is a) you can take elemental fist, period, b) elemental fist is the only prereq you have to fulfill when choosing a style feat.
If it is I must admit I would be pretty tempted to pick up Elemental Fist at lower levels, although I think it would be worth it to then wait until level 6 after I get Dragon Ferocity at level 5 and treat it as if I were a MotFW.
MotFW? Monk of the What?
Well, my expertise in mmonks and the style feats being what it is, I won't advise you on whether or when you ought to take ElFist, it's your character and build and I respect that.
Monk of the Four Winds. It gives you a version of Elemental Fist that scales with level. Essentially every 5 levels (including at 5th) it increases the damage of said feat by 1d6 (up to 5d6 at level 20). If you have Dragon Ferocity and take the feat you can count it as if you had said archetype's version of the feat, although it can only be of one element until you would normally qualify for it (as you can take it without the prereqs due to Dragon Ferocity).
OK, thanks, yes, it does look like an interesting archetype to try... and I'll have to look up the Dragon style to review that interesting combo.
Dragon Style's Dragon Roar is also really good when combined with Marid Style, as it allows you to expend a use of Elemental Fist in order to use said feat along with the roar. What this means for the MoMS is that you can have a possible AoE Shaken and Entangle ability that also does some nice damage (if you combine the Marid Style line with the Dragon Style line). Also MotFW stacks with the new Scaled Disciple and then for added fun go Suli. You can belt out some insane elemental damage through melee with that combination. The first combo is more for doing some dubuffs and AoEs as well as damage.
One note is that officially moms cannot be on an unchained monk
Why, can't the Unch... versions of various classes support the archetypes made for the standard version? are they considered archetypes in their own right?
in Pathfinder unchained it says this in effect.
"any old material for Rogue, Barbarian, and summoner should work for unchained versions unless mentioned in this book. This means that archetypes work for them. Note that Monk isn't there. Nothing old works for unchained monk."
alright, thanks.
Why, can't the Unch... versions of various classes support the archetypes made for the standard version? are they considered archetypes in their own right?
they can, generally, but the unchained monk is an exception.
Does Paizo have a hard on for messing with the monk? I know one of the original designers despised the monk and that is why it was so terrible in the beginning, but why would the Unchained Monk be the exception to the rule? I mean I can kind of see that a lot of archetypes wouldn't fit exactly with the unchained version, but I do not see why they would have a blanket ban.
Because nothing nice would ever happen.
Though there are officially I think 2 archetypes that work with UMonk (last time I checked). Don't get your hopes up, they're both gimmicks.
Last time I checked there were 6 that could be used. Perfect Scholar, Monk of the Mantis, Black Asp, Sage Counselor, Scaled Fist, and Serpent-Fire Adept. Admittedly 3 of them (Counselor, Black Asp, and Adept) are kind of meh, but the other three are pretty good. Was rather confused why no one ever mentioned MoMS when it came to discussing the unchained version. Now I know why, because apparently screw the monk (I for one really enjoy the flavor of a mystical adept).
What are the sources of thes archetypes, for us paper lovers?
Monk of the Mantis is from the Dirty Tactics Toolbox
Black Asp is from Ultimate Intrigue
Sage Counselor is from Ultimate Intrigue
Scaled Fist is probably from the new dragon book
Serpent-Fire Adept is from Occult Adventures
Not sure about Perfect Scholar.
If you use the pfsrd the source for any material is always listed at the bottom of the page.
thanks.
Okay, just woke up. Scaled Fist is from Legacy of Dragon and is one of the better things that came from that book (the other being the drake companion and the archetypes that use it). Perfect Scholar ... I don't remember where it is from. Something very new, however.
Inner sea intrigue I believe is the source of perfect scholar.